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Bizzy View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 November 2007 at 9:52am
An interesting article...

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Jennz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jennz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2007 at 10:30am
Yeah its been in the news over here all day today- causing some pretty heated debates! Its funny that even though everyone knows that it makes for a healthier baby its the chance that it increases intelligence that seems to get everyone really wound up (well here it is anyway, alot of pro-bottle feeders are getting v v defensive).
Jen, Charlotte 7 & Kate 3

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fattartsrock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2007 at 10:36am
yeah the bottle mums over on trade me were getting really heat up and defensive. I felt like saying (but so didn't want to get into that argument) THEY'RE NOT SAYING YOUR BABIES ARE STUPID.
The Honest Un PC Parent of 2, usually stuck in the naughty corner! :P
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my2angels View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote my2angels Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2007 at 12:58pm
yeah and isnt it only babies with a certain gene or something?
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yummymummy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yummymummy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2007 at 2:26pm
To be honest, I think that's a lot of bull. It would suggest that babies in countries in Africa and Asia where parents are not likely to be able to afford formula and are b'feeding are a lot smarter than others. I think environment and education count for a lot more.
And before you think I'm getting defensive - Gina was on breastmilk for the first 6 months
    
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Bizzy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bizzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2007 at 2:28pm
so your saying that people in african and asian countries who come from poor backgrounds are smarter as a general rule?
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Rachael21 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rachael21 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2007 at 4:20pm
You know what this really annoys me how we can't ever talk about how great breastmilk is. If we do we get critisized for shoving it in ff mums faces. Anyone ever think that maybe all these studies are right and breastmilk is the best. I feel like there is no support for bfing mums and if you ever look for help cos your having problems the first thing someone says is give formula a try. The annoying thing is you can't dare say there is no way in hell I'll be giving my baby formula as long as my boobs are producing milk. You just have to pretend to think about it. I'll probably have my head bitten off for saying this but its been bothering me for way too long.

Anyway I hope my kids have that gene

Edited by RachandJack
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Bizzy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bizzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2007 at 4:30pm
Originally posted by RachandJack RachandJack wrote:

You know what this really annoys me how we can't ever talk about how great breastmilk is. If we do we get critisized for shoving it in ff mums faces. Anyone ever think that maybe all these studies are right and breastmilk is the best.


hear hear!!!!

someone on another board pointed out how there are over 100 other properties/nutrients etc in breast milk that havent even been identified yet and you can bet they are all there for a reason.
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my2angels View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote my2angels Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2007 at 4:36pm
hmm try being a ff mother and see what sort of reaction you get. i think there is soooo much more support and understanding for breastfeeding mothers. at least you arent made to feel like you are ruining your childs life because you cant/dont breastfeed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caliandjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2007 at 4:48pm
From the article "In both countries, breast-fed children had a higher IQ by about six to seven points, but only if they had a variant that made the gene more efficiently process fatty acids.

For those with the less common - and less efficient - variant, breastfeeding made no difference when it came to intelligence, the researchers said."

Would suggest you need to have the genetic make up in the first place.
From my point of view, I have above average IQ and I was adopted at birth and exclusively breast feed.

Obviously I will breast feed if i can as there are clear benefits to it, but I'm not going to feel guilty or anything if I find I can't and use a bottle. Having a healthy feed baby is surely the main aim.

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Angel June 2012
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cuppatea View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cuppatea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2007 at 5:23pm
I have to agree with my2angels I think there is a lot of support for breastfeeding and a lot of pressure put on women to breastfeed. I whole heartedly agree that breastfeeding is best and I support anyone who wants to breastfeed and to feed for as long as they like but I also think there should be more understanding and support for those of us who can't/don't breastfeed.
RachandJack I think plunket are far too quick to push formula onto bubs, their answer to everything seems to be to give formula. I also think the hospitals do the same thing, it is easier for them to give babies formula than help with breastfeeding issues.
My baby is formula fed but I don't think talking about the benefits of breastmilk is shoving it in my face, i'm already aware that breastmilk is best and thats why I had planned to breastfeed till at least 12 months but it didn't work out that way. I suppose some women may get upset about it as they would like to be giving breastmilk but can't etc.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rachael21 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2007 at 5:34pm
Maybe support wasn't the right word but I just find that people think because I breastfeed it has all been a walk in the park and I should be lucky I can. I went through a hell of a lot of pain with Jack so I think I did a good job and I'm not sorry about that. But on the other hand I have a lot of respect for mums who made the decision to ff and stood strong. I realise it must be hard when there is such an emphasis on bfing but I also think it would be nice for ff to let some things go and let us be proud once in a while.
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my2angels View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote my2angels Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2007 at 5:51pm
I think (and this is only my opinion) that those who dont let you feel proud you bf are those who feel guilty about ffding. I personally dont really care how people feed thier babies as long as they feed them and the babies are healthy. I dont think women who bf necessarily deserve a medal or anything but good on those who perserve (sp?) when its hard and sore. Its all about choice and whats best for you but i dont really think its gonna make a baby more intelligent.
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cuppatea View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cuppatea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2007 at 6:18pm
Hey Rachandjack I understand what you mean. Everyone at my ante natal coffee group is still bfing and I think that is great but I am a little sad that I'm also not still bfing, but that is my problem not theirs. They are all supportive of me because they now what I went through but it can sometimes be a different reaction from people who don't know why I'm not bfing. (although I am over that now). I think my2angles is right about people not wanting you to feel proud because they have their own issues and thats not fair on you. I also don't think that every woman that is breastfeeding found it a walk in the park, but on the other hand bfing mums need to understand that not all bottle feeders gave up at the first hint of a problem.
I think in general women should be more supportive of each other rather judge each other all the time. (IMO anyway)

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AnnC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnnC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2007 at 8:08pm
yes breast is best but ff is not the worst - worst would be not feeding your child at all.

be proud of whatever decsison you make for your child and yourself.
Ann


Also Mum to Josh (15) and Brooke (10)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2007 at 9:42pm
Originally posted by my2angels my2angels wrote:

hmm try being a ff mother and see what sort of reaction you get. i think there is soooo much more support and understanding for breastfeeding mothers. at least you arent made to feel like you are ruining your childs life because you cant/dont breastfeed


I've FF one child and BF the other. I can't say I was made to feel bad for FFing but I'm sure most of us have an underlying feeling of 'I couldn't breastfeed therefore have failed my baby' which can make FFing Mums feel a little defensive.

I think there needs to be a lot of support and acceptance for BFing otherwise people would stop earlier. I gave up fairly early last time but with support from the midwife, plunket and lactation consultant I've continued feeding longer with no.2. I also think there is more acceptance of BFing now, which is a good thing. I think its acceptance of BFing rather than negativity towards FFing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yummymummy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2007 at 9:48pm
Originally posted by GandT GandT wrote:

so your saying that people in african and asian countries who come from poor backgrounds are smarter as a general rule?


If you believe what the study suggest, they'd have higher IQ. I think environment and education count for a lot more - and those will be heaps better in NZ that the third world countries.

Anyways I think b'feeding is great but people should be given a break - I felt it was forced down on me at Akl Hospital and no one would give me info on formula even though my milk took days to come in! I think both formula and breast are valid choices and the most important thing is that babies are fed and happy.
    
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Bizzy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bizzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2007 at 10:51pm
are you reading the same article ...?

I posted the link cause i thought it was an interesting read...not cause i wanted to argue breast v formula.

But since we are talking that way what makes me really angry is women who say stupid things about why they didnt breast feed or have ridiculous excuses when really they couldnt be bothered. Why not come out and say the truth in the first place.

And for the record milk takes days to come in for everyone! Its how nature designed us.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jennz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2007 at 11:30pm
Originally posted by RachandJack RachandJack wrote:

You know what this really annoys me how we can't ever talk about how great breastmilk is. If we do we get critisized for shoving it in ff mums faces. Anyone ever think that maybe all these studies are right and breastmilk is the best.


I totally agree. When people complain about how much BFing is pushed on them- these health care workers are pushing it on mothers because they are educated about how brilliant BFing is and they want what is best for your baby. They don't have an alterior motive to make you miserable- they want your baby to be as healthy as possible and they are trying to do everything possible to make people see that.

I went through hell those first few months BFing DD1 but I persevered and it really annoys me when I see people giving up after a half hearted effort and acting like its their right because "happy mum = happy baby".

If you want to FF fine- but understand it is a choice and with that choice comes the responsibility that you aren't doing what is best for your child (yes I know that everyone has their story but thats what it comes down to). I supplemented DD1 from 4 months because I thought my milk was running out- I am now more educated about BFing and I know it wasn't (my supply was just evening out so my breasts didn't feel as full but they still had milk) and if I had of had the support I could of worked through that. I take full responsibility for that, I feel v guilty and crap about it and I think I should feel that way- because I didn't try hard enough to do what was best for her. Only 2% of women are medically unable to BF. I feel that this place in particular is v v supportive of FF mums, I have never seen anyone get 'told off' for making the switch- but when something like this comes out why can't we, who have worked hard and persevered and made our choice to do that best, feel a little happy about it and not get the "its a load of bull" comments.
Jen, Charlotte 7 & Kate 3

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cuppatea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2007 at 7:14am
I don't think there is any argument, of course nature is better and wiser and of course breastmilk is best for babies.
for all you breastfeeders, you should be proud that you are breastfeeding.

Shame the article didn't mention how long that breastfeeding was needed to make a difference.

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