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Snickerdoodle View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17 May 2008 at 12:07pm
After a week of waking at 1:30 and 5 for feeds I'm exhausted and looking for ways to help my baby sleep through the night!

She's always been a once a night girl, right from the start.

Our night time routine is fairly standard.
Play, bath, massage, feed, bed.
DH bottle feeds her EBM. I express while he does this, ready for her dinner the following night.
I'm only managing to express about 125mls (I used to be able to get a good 180mls).

What did others do at 4 months old in terms of feeding?
I've read a lot of you do formula top ups.
What's the average amount your baby ate at this stage?
Did formula help them sleep through longer?

I'm at my wits end, and I have it relatively easy, compared to some. You all deserve medals!!

Oh, and what's your favourite formula?
And why?


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popcorn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote popcorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2008 at 12:26pm
she might be going through a growth spurt so she may be trying to increase your supply, you could try expressing in the morning and feeding her the morning milk at night as it tends to be fattier and more satisfying at that time of day, i know lots of people that worked for.

I started my boy on solids about 4 months, he was starving and feeding 2 hourly through the day plus all the usual signs so didnt end up needing formula till 6 months when my milk started to dry up and he started to bite me!

We use Heinz Nurture, I like it because its cheap, its thinner than other formulas so more alike to breast milk
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Freesia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Freesia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2008 at 12:42pm
Charly, you pretty much know our story and that Livvy isn't a great feeder. We give Livvy a couple formula feeds at night every hour or so (because she won't take enough in one feed) but she's still waking once a night. Better that than the 3 times we get without the formula. In total the feed would amount to about 200ml - sometimes a little bit more.

We use the Heinz Nuture Gold purely because of all the sample packs we had, that was the only one she'd actually drink Hope you find something that works so that Hannah sleeps a little better.
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Maya View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2008 at 1:04pm
Gremlins were fully FF by 3 mths, and no it didn't help them sleep thru the night.

Maya started night waking at 16 weeks and Plunket told me to put her on solids, which I did and it was a huge mistake and didn't fix her sleep at all.

Sorry, not much help here
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Snickerdoodle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snickerdoodle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2008 at 1:35pm
That's OK Emma! I wanna hear all sides and all successes and failures with formula top-ups.
I want to make an informed decision


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Snickerdoodle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snickerdoodle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2008 at 1:36pm
I guess my questions is; is 125mls enough at night for a 4 month old?


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SMoody View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SMoody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2008 at 1:52pm
McKayla was breastfeeding for ten minutes at a time every 3 hours during the day and 4 hours at night. We did demandfeeding but she just got herself into that schedule. We only started feeding solids at 4 and a half months and that was due to her grabbing food out of my hand and feeding herself (otherwise I would have waited a bit longer)

I tried top up feeding for a week when she was 11 months old (we moved her so day and night literally changed and she started feeding more at night)Didnt help one bit but that was just my experience. She did throw the bottle at me however the first two night and after that drank it but got up more or less the same time.


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tishy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tishy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2008 at 2:15pm
My 2 are putting away 200mils of EBM each at the 10pm dreamfeed. No idea where they're putting it to be honest.
There's a formula that can be used to calculate how much milk you should be giving but I can't remember it properly.

Something like (200*weight)/num feeds. Someone correct me if that's wrong.

I express immediately after and have found that I'm not getting as much milk now that they're sleeping through the night.
We're currently digging into the supply in the freezer but I've started expressing in the morning as well in the hope that it'll increase the supply.
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BellaBoo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BellaBoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2008 at 2:58pm
Hmmm....it dosnt sound like enough to me. Bella was downing 200-250mls EBM at that age.
I was also doing the expressing while DF feeds but got sick of doing that. Now I let Bella drain my boobs before her bath and then give her as much formula as she will take (usually up to 80mls) after her bath and then she goes straight to bed. This has been sooooo much easier, less stressful and far less time consuming.
You could try this but keep expressing to keep your supply up just in case it dosnt work for you?
Good Luck!
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Freesia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Freesia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2008 at 3:18pm
Charly, it would probably depend on how many times Hannah is feeding during the day. She may have little bits more often. I posted the formula Tishy was talking about on another thread. My midwife gave it to me when I asked how much EBM to feed at each sitting.

Basically take babies weight (kg) x 200 and that gives you how many mls they 'should' drink in the day and then divide that by the number of feeds they have during the day to give you an amount of how much to give at each feed.

Eg, if baby weighs 5.5kg and has 6 feeds a day, you go 5.5x200=1100 ml per day -> 1100/6=183mls each feed.

The 200 figure was the maximum. My midwife said to use a figure between 180-200 depending on the baby.
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Peanut View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peanut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2008 at 4:18pm
I am the same as Maya. My wee man is fully FF (always has been) and started solids at 4 months and he is only just sleeping thru. So am not sure that formula or solids makes a huge difference.

He was waking at roughly the same times as Hannah and I just stopped feeding him at the early wake to see if he would go back to sleep without it and he did. Could be worth a try.

Mac has 200mls at 7pm and goes down then.
       
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arohanui View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arohanui Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2008 at 4:26pm
Hey Charly, I've been the same where my supply was getting low in the evenings. For the last few days I've been taking Fennel (does the same thing as Blessed Thistle apparently, but the shop didn't have any when DH bought it) and I've certainly noticed a big increase in my supply. It's great.

Just another thought - how many feeds is Hannah getting during the day? I find that if I fit 6 feeds in, that helps Harry to get through the night easier.

Also what time does she go to bed? When Harry started randomly doing the twice a night thing, I pushed his bedtime later again (about 9/10pm) and found that helped. Also I keep him up for at least 2 hours before bed... at the moment actually it's more like 3 hours. Just distract him with playing in exersaucer, sitting in highchair, nudey time etc.. and then his bath or shower and massage. Sometimes he does get grizzly but if it gets too bad I'll give him his dummy (doesn't usually have it for when he's awake). I just find it's worth it cos he sleeps for longer at night.

I dunno, just some ideas anyway cos I feel for you!
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Snickerdoodle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snickerdoodle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2008 at 4:42pm
Thanks everyone

I've done that calculation, thanks Freesia!
According that that I should be feeding her 180-200mls at each feed.
I know if I express around 11am I'll get a good 180mls. I expressed after her 11am feed today (after she had both sides for a good 3-4 mins each) and I got a fursther 40mls, so I'd say it's just my night time supply that's lacking.
I bought a couple of the Nurture Gold single serve sachets today to trial. Will see how it goes.

I'll pop up to the health shop on Monday to look into fennel or blessed thistle.


Hannah's not ready for solids. She doesn't show ANY interest in when we eat or any of the other classic signs.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ElfsMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2008 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by Freesia Freesia wrote:

Charly, it would probably depend on how many times Hannah is feeding during the day. She may have little bits more often. I posted the formula Tishy was talking about on another thread. My midwife gave it to me when I asked how much EBM to feed at each sitting.

Basically take babies weight (kg) x 200 and that gives you how many mls they 'should' drink in the day and then divide that by the number of feeds they have during the day to give you an amount of how much to give at each feed.

Eg, if baby weighs 5.5kg and has 6 feeds a day, you go 5.5x200=1100 ml per day -> 1100/6=183mls each feed.

The 200 figure was the maximum. My midwife said to use a figure between 180-200 depending on the baby.


sorry to thread jack but help me here.. Ethan has 150 mls per feed..any more and he wont feed properly next one (say will do 180 then 60) and it is the rigth amount for him..he is putting on weight(has doubled birth weight) is happy and healthy and not dehydrated..but going by that formula he'd need (he's 6.4kg) a lot more than he gets per day..I'm sure the nurse told me 600+ was ok.. he feeds three hourly during the day and once a night..
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.Mel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2008 at 5:52pm
Charly what do you class as "sleeping thru"?

What time is she going to bed?

When she wakes at 5 what time does she wake up after that feed?

I'd also suggest that you buy Complan and drink that and blend in a banana that will help with your supply too.

Also just a friendly warning, if you start with formula topups make sure that you express while she's having that formula bottle, sometimes topping up can be the slippery slope to weaning (not all cases, but it can happen).


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Tiff View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tiff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2008 at 5:54pm
I try to work it on how much Rohann has in a 24hr period not each individual feed. Oh and I was told similar to Freesia except you could go as little as 120 - 200 per kg. As for some reason, although Rohann is a big girl she's not a big eater - I also find she eats differing amount at different times (ie more in late afternoon through to early morning and then less after that).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snickerdoodle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2008 at 6:16pm
Originally posted by .Mel .Mel wrote:

Also just a friendly warning, if you start with formula topups make sure that you express while she's having that formula bottle, sometimes topping up can be the slippery slope to weaning (not all cases, but it can happen).


Thanks hun
I always express while DH feeds her the EBM I expressed from the night before, so I'll still be expressing so he can have his Daddy/Daughter time

And sleeping through to me is until 6 - bed at 8:30.
I'm happy if she goes until 5, as she'll go down for another couple of hours. But Up at 6 is, to me, a reasonable time to start my day




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Freesia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Freesia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2008 at 7:00pm
KA, because Ethan is FF that might be different? I don't know about the specifics, I just wanted a general idea about how much to offer and that's what my midwife told me and it was only referring to EBM. I just liked it because it gave you some idea of what to offer.

Livvy never drinks the same amount and like Ethan, she can have a lot at one feed and then not much at the next. They have a guide on how much to give on the formula tin we have, has your's got that on it too?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fattartsrock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2008 at 7:16pm
Honestly, it probably won't make much of a difference. Both my kids are sh*t sleepers, and I heard the whole last feed a formula feed theory with Jake and it did not work one bit. It may work for some, but I think it is more luck than anything.
Trust me, if she is going to sleep though, she will sleep through. Developmenally there is a big growth sprut about now, plus other things going on, such as teeth moving around and develping awareness of surroundings and difference of day and night and becoming more social, so these all contribute to night waking.
Some kids sleep though from 6 weeks, others sre still waking nightly at 3, and that is more common than you might think, and yes, it does suck!

Annd I agreee with mel in regards to pumping to keep your supply up if you drop a b/f for a f/f.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fattartsrock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2008 at 7:17pm
And eat a big handful of nuts to help make more milk!
The Honest Un PC Parent of 2, usually stuck in the naughty corner! :P
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