Car seats - extended rear facing

emz wrote: Question (not starting a debate, am purely interested) - are there stats on the survival or injury rates for RF v FF? I'm not talking the crash tests, but actual stats? We had a car crash at the start of the year which almost wrote off our car and DS didn't get hurt at all (not that that means anything, but I am just purely curious).

Not quite the stats you're after but still really interesting.

Children in Sweden generally ride rear facing until they are three to five years old or as much as 25kg (55lbs), lowering traffic death and injury rates in Sweden considerably. It is uncommon to turn a child to forward-facing before these ages. "From 1992 through June 1997, only 9 children properly restrained rear-facing died in motor vehicle crashes in Sweden, and all of these involved catastrophic crashes with severe intrusion and few other survivors."

Interesting paper Weegee. Especially that the benefit of rear facing is heaps greater for 1-2 year-olds than 0-1.

I discussed the radian with DH, and his response was "thats cheaper than a child" and he's right. If you don't crash, great, but if you do crash, a decent carseat will be the best $500 you've ever spent!

What I don't like about DD's carseat (it's a SnS, not sure what model), is that I have to have the front passenger seat really far forward to fit it in reclined RF, and that means when we travel as a family, I am at risk by being so close to the dash. It's safer for the front seat passengers to sit as far from the dash as possible, so I don't like that it's a choice between her safety and mine (of course, I choose hers, but I don't think it's great that I have to choose at all, you know?).

Just saw this article on nzherald online

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10640844

Chickielou wrote: Does the same 10year expiry apply on these newer RF seats that go for longer etc?? Or cos they are of higher quality will we expect to get longer out of them? I ask cos im hoping to find one second hand off TM cos i just dont have the funds to buy a new one and need to sell my guardian SNS first before i can even consider buying a better non tethered RF seat.

Sorry, nope The expiry depends on when and where it was made. 10 years is the absolute maximum (partly to take into account advances in technology, both in cars and seats, partly due to material degradation etc). The Radian for instance has an 8 year life. The Brio Zento has the maximum 10 year life. There are more details about expiry dates here.

Chickielou wrote: Can anyone tell me what would be the cheapest RF for up to about 20kgs out at the moment??

Unless you bring in a seat from Sweden or the US the Brio Zento is your ONLY option available in NZ to RF that long. The Radian will go to 18kg, and there are a few I posted links to on the first page of this thread that go to 16kg (the Cosco Scenera being the cheapest - apparently some stores of The Baby Factory have them on sale this month).

Bobbie, I'm checking on your questions (ETA - just went back to see what they were and couldn't find them, does that mean you found the answers? I remembered there was something about shoulder width for the Radian?)

Edited by weegee

hehe ok... weegee obviously has 2 hands to type her response

Chickielou, all seats have different lifespans - heres a page with most seats available in NZ Expiry dates

Cosco Scenera
-US seat
- 6yr expiry from manu. date
-around $200 but can often get them cheaper on sale from BOTM, The Warehouse, Repco.
-Doesn't tether RFing (does FFing)
-RFs up to 15.8kgs.

Sunshine Radian
-US seat
-RFs up to 20kgs
-Tethers RFing (doesn't have too but is recommended to) Tethers differently to SnS seats - goes from the back of the car seat down to the seats in front.
-5 point harnessing to 36 kgs.
-lifespan of 8 years.
-$500

Brio Zento
-European seat
-Tethers RFing - like the Radian - from the back of the carseat down to the front seats
-RFs 25kgs
-FF birth to 18kgs (harnessed)
-FF in booster mode with seatbelt 18-25kgs
-10 yr lifespan
-around $560-$600

In all honesty, I would say the Radian (although alot of $$$) is your best bet - simply because once FFing you can keep your wee man harnessed up to 36kgs which is pretty impressive - this will see him through to a really good age, weight and height.
Unfortunetly I doubt you will find one of these on TM. You may find a Brio come up occasionally. Please be careful with buying second-hand. You don't know the history of the seat, how it has been looked after etc. Any minor accident can cause damage to the seat (which may be overlooked). Also if they have cleaned the seat using cleaners it may weaken the straps. Unless you know who you are buying from and trust that they have followed the manufacturers instructions I personally wouldn't buy second-hand.

If I were you I would hold onto your SnS guardian. It is still a REALLY good seat and may see your wee man through to 2years RFing. (I know of a little boy still RFing in his at 23mths). In this time I would save for a Radian (they are going to be a mainstay in NZ YAY!!) and then sell off your Guardian closer to the time he is outgrowing it.

Anyway, HTH

I particualry want to use RF seat for as long as possible, and am becoming more and more horrified at parents who don't.  I can see the potential for severe injuries to my child even in a minor colission - particualrly if some one rear ends you - causing whip lash type injuries these are pretty severe in adults - and in children in FF seats they'd be closer to the area of impact.

I know myself and DH are pretty safety consicious, and have been seeing the promotion and push for RF. We don't need government regulations to change in order for us to make the right decision about safety for our children.

Its places like OB etc where these issues are discussed that allows me to make an informed parenting decision, and not simply following the pack.

This is simply my own choice, I'm not getting at anyone - for me this thread has been very beneficial.

WOW thanks for the response !!!!! very detailed thank you so much for taking the time to respond that fully. This is number 3 for me and a huge wake up call!!

Weegee the one reason i want to get rid of my guardian at the moment is because of the tether straps get right in the way when putting bubs into carseat. we have used it once and decided to hire a capsule cos we couldnt be a$$ed with the tether straps. If i could at least get one of the $200 RF up to 16kgs that would take me prob til at least 3-4 (if he ends up the same size as my 6yr old) and TBH if i could get my son to be RF to at the very least 2-3yrs i would be very happy also..........anything past 12months is gotta be good right??

I think i would like to sell my guardian now since its still brand new in the box so would fetch a better price and my son is still in a capsule so have possibly 2 more months hiring that and if need be will hire a RF carseat til i can afford one

Will be checking baby factory if they are on special too!!

Ok sorry one more question, here is a pic of a cosco........but to me the front seat looks like its been pushed right forwards.........would i need a fairly big car to fit a RF seat in?? I currently have a toyota camry station wagon

link to cosco on TM

Hi guys- I am also a Pro rearfacer. Initially, I aimed initially to get to 1year, but after readng more on here, I am hoping to extend that.

My issue at the moment is that DD (9months) is already 11kg (well, very close to it). We have a mothers choice royal, which I have no problems with, but I recently came to realise that it is only RF'ing till 12kg's (Cr@p!!).

So I am on the hunt for another seat. I am so confused. On here there are suggested seats from $200, right through to $600. Am I 'cheap' to go for a cheaper one? Am I compromising my baby's safely by choosing a $200 seat over $600.

I am due again in sept, so another seat would have been needed anyway....I guess I just want reassurance that cheaper seats are ok?

Also- I am curious to why at 12kg (or other weights on other seats) babies all of a sudden need to be flipped round. I dont quite get how a seat can be 'unsafe' RF at one weight, but safe FF at that same weight. I am just curious.

I relaly wish I knew more of this info beofre I bought a seat when pregnant. I guess if in NZ, if plunket etc want you to keep RF for longer, they need to stop selling seats that turn to FF at lighter weights such as 12kg....as I guess most parents would simply follow what the seat says and not be aware of the dangers etc.