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Delli View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2010 at 8:36pm
Ditto to everything you said blondy.


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mummyofprinces View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mummyofprinces Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2010 at 9:01pm
Blondy that was so well written!

I normally stay away from these topics as I am pro-vaccine and dont see the point of argueing with people as they have done their research too and at the end of the day each to their own but that is what want to say but it would never come out that way....



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Emmecat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Emmecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2010 at 7:44am

Well written blondy - I don't disagree with what's been said. You're right in that we have the luxury to not have to worry about polio, diptheria, whooping cough deaths etc in NZ and that's part of the reason I don't vaccinate (yet).  I would actually very much like the whooping cough vaccine for Clodagh but Dr's tell me I can't get it seperately.  Also, Clodgah has a rather nasty egg allergy which I didn't know when I chose not to vaccinate her, but do now and it worried me she may react worse because of this.  Even the paed said she may well react badly...so what am I meant to do???

 

 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Emmecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2010 at 8:07am

Oh and Delli- cheers for your post too  I understand the herd menality arguement however I'm not convinced immuinistaion is the sole reason behind death rates for disease dropping. Better food and hygenie have also got a lot to answer for!

I also understand about ruebella being very dangerous to unborn children and during pg, however that is a vaccination my daughter can get when she is older (as we did), as are tetenus and hepatitis. If she chooses to travel to countriesd where polio and diptheria are high risk of course I would reccommend her looking at her options to get vaccinated. I guess my arguement is that we are vaccinating our kids against all these things that MIGHT happen in a long shot in THIS country, rather than act when the threat is a bit higher. I'm probably not explaining it very well but as an example, tetenus is given to you whenever you have a bad accident even if you *are* vaccinated...I know from personal experience having been injured by my horses as a teen lol. And hepatitis?? That's sexually transmitted and or shared by bodily fluids! Why and how is my 12 month old gonna get that??? And even harder to imagine her getting it at 6 weeks old (considering I don't come from a high risk group for it I mean). Why are these disease being lumped in with arguebly more important ones like polio and diptheria? Again, I'm not being smart, I actually want to know and no one can tell me .

I may not be expaining myself as well as I could but it feels inherently wrong to me for us to be giving our children all these shots 'just in case'.  Especially when every few years more and more things are added to the schedule and the only people we have to trust that our babies 'need' them are the multi billionaire drug corporations who have a huge vested financial interest in our believing them!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mummyofprinces Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2010 at 9:02am
Originally posted by Emmecat Emmecat wrote:

And hepatitis?? That's sexually transmitted and or shared by bodily fluids! Why and how is my 12 month old gonna get that??? And even harder to imagine her getting it at 6 weeks old (considering I don't come from a high risk group for it I mean). Why are these disease being lumped in with arguebly more important ones like polio and diptheria? Again, I'm not being smart, I actually want to know and no one can tell me .




My understanding is that by the time they start putting things in their mouths they have an immunity...

Jake was picking things up and putting them in his mouth at 5months and now he has a habit of quietly sneaking into peoples bags and trying to drink out of their water bottles... Oh and he is good for dummy swapping/stealing too...

I dont know who has hep and who doesnt and I cant possibly watch my son every second of the day (he is quick and crafty) and he can get into a fair bit of mischief in a short period of time...

I was told you could get egg free vaccinations.. in fact I read it recently on here too... not sure if its true but its what I have been led to believe....


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blondy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blondy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2010 at 5:37pm
viruses like measles and mumps (i think it's mumps rather than rubella) can only be grown in egg serum, and although many many steps are taken to remove all egg from the vaccines, there is still a trace amount of egg albumin remaining in the (eg) MMR vaccine. Nat is also highly allergic to egg, which is why we delayed the MMR, but I'm pleased to say she didn't react at all to the 15month ones (unlike the earlier ones!)

Hepatitis B and C is spread by bodily fluid contact, but Hep A is actually spread by food contamination (fecal contamination), so almost anyone could pick it up depending on whether you happen to eat some food that has been contaminated.

I think for me, even though I know Nat is actually at a very low risk of catching most of the diseases we have vaccinated against, part of choosing to vaccinate is because I feel it is our duty to society to maintain the level of immunised individuals, so that we don't get outbreaks in the future (as eradication of diseases like smallpox is a very rare thing!). Once again, I'm not criticising anyone, but just giving a possible reason as to why people still vaccinate, even though the chances of their child catching the disease are very low.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Emmecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2010 at 6:45pm

That's a fair point Blondy about why you immunise. Thanks too for explaining your viewpoint to me without telling me I'm doing something wrong or not respecting my opinion  Its a very hard decision to make and I can easily see both sides of the arguement. for now I'm still happy with our decision but am constantly checking with myself to make sure I still feel the same way....esp with winter coming on etc.  I'm still convinced that alongside vaccination ensuring we feed our children properly, keep them warm, have good hygenie and just use commonsense that those factors also will contribute to disease prevention.

Also, I have to say.....were it not for my deep distrust of pharmecuetical (sp?) companies (and huge multinationals in general lol), I would seriously reconsider my decision.....I cannot believe they create vaccines purely for the greater good without any financial interest involved...which I think potentially makes their ethics of what's put into them-and how they are tested- questionable (not saying there are not individuals within these companies who are not altruistic of course!)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kiwi2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2010 at 9:14pm
just out of interest (in a non confrontational tone and non judgemental way) are you concerned with the amount of people coming into NZ from third world countries etc who could bring in some of the disease that are not prevalant here. I was just thinking about this as after the whole bird flu and swine flu hoopla it sort of highlights that diseases are not contained by boundaries nowadays.

Mine are all vaccinated. We didn't have the choice although we had already vaccinated the older two. But if we hadn't we would have had to.   We lived in the USA and unless they had complete vaccinations (way more vaccinations than here) then they weren't allowed in public school. No choice at all other than to home school.   

The thought of autism caused by vaccines hit home to me. My youngest had issues and was being assessed for autism and I used to think what if it was my fault due to the vaccine. Luckily it was something else and it was all fixed with a simple operation. It makes me mad that there were so many flaws in his research and that paper made me second guess myself. (for over a year I wondered if I had done this to her) But I am thankful that I now have a healthy child.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Limochick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2010 at 8:49am
My oldest son has autism and his symptoms came out well and truely after his imms. I'm pleased to see that this man has been dis-credited because it might mean we have an increase in vaccinations. Yip I'm pro vaccine, just my opinion. He also has a heart condition and I would give him any injection if it meant he had a smaller chance of contracting an illness. He's going to fiji next month so he's going to get the typhoid injection this morning.

Just wondering (I'm not being condecending just curious) how many of you againist vaccines would go overseas to various countries without having the recommended injections??

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High9 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2010 at 8:58am
Your post at the end of last page Blondy is well written.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cuppatea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2010 at 9:06am
I would look into the individual vaccines and asses them and decide. We have looked at every vaccine on the schedule not just the MMR one and we certainly did not base our decision on one piece of research, so I doubt that anyone who has properly researched and decided not to vaccinate would change their opinion at all just because of what has happened over wakefield.

This is worth a read, for anyone willing to keep an open mind that is.

http://www.thedailybell.com/1089/Dr-Andrew-Wakefield-on-the-AutismVaccine-Controversy-and-His-Ongoing-Professional-Persecution.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AandCsmum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2010 at 9:28am
Blondy, when did you delay Nat's vax until & did you do them all at once or over a couple of weeks?
Kel


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blondy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2010 at 9:50am
AandC'sMum - We waitied till about 18 months, and separated them all out by 2-3 weeks (did MMR first, then waited a couple weeks, then the next one, then the next one). Could have waited longer, but wanted to get them all done before I started studying fulltime and may have needed to keep Nat home to see if she reacted at all.

It's funny - I went in and told the GP and the nurse what the plan was, and they were totally fine with it - previously when I had been a little uncertain about what to do, I found them much bossier and more forceful. I really wanted to split the MMR up as well, but apparently (at least what I was told by my GP, and via the govt websites I hunted through) you can't even order them into the country separately, which I think is a real bummer.


Re: the above link for the article about Wakefield - I did read it, but I think the article is quite biased in how it presents the information...for example, it doesn't mention at all that Wakefield's studies were carried out in a (partially) non-ethical and certainly not blinded manner, and that single fact alone (for me) means that I would not trust anything he has to say.......in particular about "Big Pharma" - having worked in the pharmaceutical industry I know that the hoops you have to jump through are so so massive to get a drug to market (certainly having longer follow-up periods than 6 weeks), and the FDA (and other equivalent organisations) need such strict and impartial information and data; far more than what Wakefield's statements lead you to believe in that article.

I do think it's important to read both sides of any argument, and I know (hope!) that most people that choose not to vaccinate do their research well, but it's hard to avoid information presented in a biased way, especially when the material is so emotive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cuppatea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2010 at 10:17am
Yep I read both sides, then draw my own conclusions, not much more you can do than that, and when I read either side I do bare in mind that they are biased, just a different way depending on which side. He isn't anti vac though, which a lot of people assume he is without reading what he has to say and I just thought that as well as reading all his bad press perhaps people should also read his side of it.

I find it uncomfortable that pharmaceutical companies are protected when it comes to vaccines, why bother to properly safety test if you are above reproach anyway? I'm sure they do test all other drugs properly cos otherwise they would get sued.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caliandjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2010 at 12:13pm

My only comment is regarding the original article posted, and how dangerous a lot of so called reasearch can be.
Every week there seems to be reasearch being published in regards to what is and what isn't safe.

It will be interesting to see what we decide once our daughter is ready to be vaccinated as I'm pro-vaccine as I think the reason we have such a low incidence of contagious disease in NZ is because of vaccination.
Dh however isn't so convinced after contracting measles at 16, even though he had been vaccinated.

Someone mentioned Chicken pox - my understanding is this is viral and not able to be vaccinated against.
I've been vaccinated for Hepatitis not because its sexually transmitted, but because I was a volunteer lifeguard in my teens and the possible risk of transmission from coming into contact with bodily fluids.

For me having a daughter being vaccinated against rubella is a no-brainer - whether its done as a baby or when she's older if something I'll discuss with her GP. I got vaccinated at 12 and still have immunity.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blondy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2010 at 12:47pm
Originally posted by caliandjack caliandjack wrote:


Dh however isn't so convinced after contracting measles at 16, even though he had been vaccinated.



Vaccination is generally not going to stop anyone from getting the disease, it simply lessens the effect as the immune system is already 'primed' against the pathogen. Vaccines can wear off over time as well - I'm not sure about measles specifically, but some vaccines may give only a certain number of years' protection.

Originally posted by caliandjack caliandjack wrote:

Someone mentioned Chicken pox - my understanding is this is viral and not able to be vaccinated against.



The Chicken pox vaccine is routinely used in the US and Australia (infact is part of the schedule there) - in NZ you need to pay for it, but there are 2 vaccines available for VZV (Varicella zoster virus, which causes chicken pox and subsequently possibly shingles).

twoboys - totally agree about the information being biased from both directions....which is why it is really hard to get a clear idea of the facts from either point of view.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caliandjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2010 at 2:58pm

I've had chicken pox, and DH has had shingles - which seems to be much worse and quite painful.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lisa85 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2010 at 3:17pm
Originally posted by ElfsMum ElfsMum wrote:

yeah I'm the same..I'm very pro vaccine and would always rather take the slight risk than have my child potentially die of preventable disease.. .. and also pro choice..as long as it is informed choice...ugh words dont even describe that guy!


I agree

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lisame Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2010 at 10:15am
two_boys, just a quick response to that story you've posted - I have a very good friend who was working at the Lancet at the time his original study was published. A lot of what he said happened at the time, and subsequently when the Lancet publicly apologised for publishing his paper, does not match what she has told me. The Lancet were given a completely different picture of his research to the way he explains it in that article - otherwise they never would have published it; they are a scientific mag not a 'let's publish a bunch of interesting case studies' mag.

A general comment - I'm really interested in the number of people who say they can't find un-biased information on vaccinations. I've just done an ante-natal course and a woman there said she had really struggled to find good 'anti' vaccination information, and that really surprised me as I've found loads.

It made me wonder if some people (like her) are already inherently for or against vaccinations, and so you are never going to completely believe or rely on any information you find as you've already made your mind up...

Just a thought, and maybe it would be useful to share some of the better websites some people have found when researching this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John129126 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2013 at 8:39pm
Very nice post. I just stumbled upon like this post and wished to say that I’ve really enjoyed surfing around this thread posts.
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