Medical students and deliveries
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Topic: Medical students and deliveries
Posted By: busymum
Subject: Medical students and deliveries
Date Posted: 30 September 2007 at 7:54pm
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Thoughts on http://stuff.co.nz/4220516a11.html - this ? -------------  |
Replies:
Posted By: meow
Date Posted: 30 September 2007 at 7:57pm
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That's a tricky one. I wouldn't have wanted anyone else there at the time, but I can see where they are coming from. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Kels
Date Posted: 30 September 2007 at 8:05pm
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That is really sad they are not getting the training they need. If the simulator vaginas I used at my smear takers course are what they are having to practice on then that is outragous as those things are so far from the female anatomy its scary. I was lucky enougt to attedn 2births and 1 c-sect during my training. My own mw picked my ladies and asked their premission and waws given the ok both times. I think it comes down to asking approprite families, I mean you wouldnt go and ask a 1st time mum or someone with previous bad experience. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
Busy mum to Miss 15yrs, Miss 10yrs and Master 4yrs |
Posted By: mum2paris
Date Posted: 30 September 2007 at 8:07pm
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I can also see where they are coming from.. Having been on the other side as a nursing student and having been placed on maternity placement.. sitting for weeks in maternity only to have everyone decline to have another person there. Which is fine as for Paris, I would have probably said no had i been asked. With Ayja, I knew that my colleagues were due to have placements in the delivery suite around when she was due, however she came early and was born in the 1 week between the finish of 1 set of placements and the start of another (wooohoo!) my reason behind not saying yes in that situation, had it arisen.. would have been that i knew them as colleagues and not friends at that point since i had only just joined their group. looking back i would have probably been ok with the person who asked if they could follow.. had she asked at the right time.
I mean really, when it comes down to it.. these are the people who are going to take over from the experts when the experts are old and haggardy.. so yeah, say no now.. but when you're on your 4 th kid.. they might just be the ones fumbling their way through if anything goes wrong. 
lol, and lets face it, who really cares who's in the room when it gets down tot he nitty gritty.. by that stage all you want is that baby outta you! ------------- Janine and her 2 cool chicks, Paris & Ayja 
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Posted By: Kels
Date Posted: 30 September 2007 at 8:11pm
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oops sorry for mistakes I cant be jackd going back to edit them. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
Busy mum to Miss 15yrs, Miss 10yrs and Master 4yrs |
Posted By: Rachael21
Date Posted: 30 September 2007 at 8:12pm
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I don't think they midwives are even asking because I so would of said yes for one with Caprece since I had such a straight forward labour with Jack. I wanted a student there because I would really love to be a midwife one day and know they need experience, but my midwife never asked.
I had a student do the guthries test on her tho which i thought was great. the students are trying so hard to get it right so they actually explain things properly. |
Posted By: mum2paris
Date Posted: 30 September 2007 at 8:14pm
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speaking of students i just remembered i have one trailing me for the next 6 weeks starting tomorrow! ------------- Janine and her 2 cool chicks, Paris & Ayja
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Posted By: busymum
Date Posted: 30 September 2007 at 8:33pm
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I didn't want anyone with my first baby - I think that's fair enough for anyone who wants "just family" etc. But then cause that went to custard I was a bit anxious about having a student for #2 as well. I'd have one now, but it certainly helps to have it explained in this way too. I think I *might* be alright with a male student now too (only now though) so long as I knew exactly what his role would be and had met him before making my decision (and not in his presence either).
There's a big difference from having a "(curious) student" in the delivery room from having a "future gynae" there... IYGWIM? So perhaps mws should be wording things a little different - not with pressure though. ------------- |
Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 30 September 2007 at 8:48pm
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there are teaching hospitals so why would they need to attend births at birthing centres.
I have never said no to a student cause they have to learn somehow but i wouldnt expect it at a birthing centre. |
Posted By: mummy_becks
Date Posted: 30 September 2007 at 9:09pm
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When I was in the ward (still pregnant) with Andrew I had a Massey student that was trailing the MW that was looking after me. I was happy for her to do the odd thing but there was a few things that I just didn't feel comfortable her doing. In the delivery of Andrew I made sure there were no students at all - I just didn't want them there. When it came to having Josh I was happy for there to be students but there weren't any there so I didn't have one there. ------------- I was a puree feeder, forward facing, cot sleeping, pram pushing kind of Mum... and my kids survived! |
Posted By: fattartsrock
Date Posted: 30 September 2007 at 9:13pm
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I had a student DR come to a m/w appointment with Char, but none were around with the birth. I would have been ok with it second time round, not first, though. ------------- The Honest Un PC Parent of 2, usually stuck in the naughty corner! :P |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 01 October 2007 at 6:43am
| I think I had said yes when my m/w asked if I'd be OK with a student midwife attending, even though it didn't end up that way - don't know about a male student though? I suppose they have to get that training somehow. |
Posted By: daikini
Date Posted: 01 October 2007 at 7:40am
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I've said yes whenever I've been asked about having a student observe... would have said no if asked when delivering Kiya, but I have straight-forward births (my midwife with Kiya said afterwards she wished she'd recorded it as an example!) so would have no problems with students observing in the future. Wouldn't have a male observing me birth though, as that would make Nat uncomfortable - it is something we've discussed. ------------- Becca, mum of 2 girls & 3 boys |
Posted By: jaz
Date Posted: 01 October 2007 at 7:47am
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When I had Brooke 12 years ago they insisted that a student was present in the delivery room and stated that as National Womens was a teaching hospital that was just how it was done. Even though the handouts given to me outlined my rights, including the right to not have a student present, they wouldn't give me pain relief until I agreed to it and allowed the student to do an examination. The distressing part was that I was throwing up everywhere and clearly didn't want any additional 'handling'. The whole thing completely put me off and I was insistent when I had Caleb that there was to be no student involvement whatsoever for this birth or any others. If they'd have handled it differently way back then I probably wouldn't have such a bee in my bonnet about it now. Thinking back now I wonder what they were thinking, first time Mum, chucking up everywhere, having a prem baby, delaying pain relief and insisting on having a student getting as involved as possible so that everything had to be done twice (once by the student and once by the midwife). ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Mazzy
Date Posted: 01 October 2007 at 7:49am
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I said yes to a student observing my first birth with DD, but nothing ever eventuated from it (it was a general 'yes to the idea' on a form my midwife got me to fill out at the booking in). I figure these are the people who may deliver my other babies in the future - or DD's babies. I don't have a problem whether they are female or male (I don't have a problem with a male GP) but never thought to ask whether it would be an issue for DH - will have to talk to him about that as I could understand him being uncomfortable.
The best postnatal care I had on the hospital ward was from student midwives, they were awesome. They have to get experience somehow, and at the hospital there were so many different staff midwives and residents coming in and out over the course of the long induction, I really don't think I would have noticed another extra there. Plus, an extra set of hands could always be good! I'd definitely want it to be observation only though, and maybe some hands on stuff after the baby was born (weighing etc) but wouldn't be happy for a student to do any 'care' stuff during the birth. That's why I took such care choosing a midwife with lots of experience, so that I could be confident in her handling anything during the birth. ------------- Mum to two gorgeous girls! |
Posted By: james
Date Posted: 01 October 2007 at 9:01am
i had a student at james brith and she was great she was with my midwife for four weeks and was in her last year of midwifey and had done 4 or 5 briths before hand i didnt mind at all and it was a good a lreaning creve for her as my brith didnt go right. vicki did most of the checks and montering during my loubor with my midwife and also did the after care aswell with my midwife the way i see it is now eles are they spose to lrean ------------- <a href="http://lilypie.com"><img src="http://b4.lilypie.com/nLJ5p13.png" alt="Lilypie 4th Birthday Ticker" border="0" /></a> |
Posted By: MummyFreckle
Date Posted: 01 October 2007 at 9:38am
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I dont think I would want one for our first birth. Mainly because everything is so new and scary anyway that having another person in the room would prob just freak me out even more. I dont know though - I am very "pro" students being involved and getting their experience somehow, and I think that so long as they werent too "eager" (IYKWIM) then I would be fine in the future. ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 01 October 2007 at 12:31pm
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I had a student at my c/s and I wasn't even asked, I wouldn't have minded. It was however a bit off putting when I could hear the surgeon telling her "don't pull on that", "don't put your fingers there" etc. Would have been a lot happier if they had told (or better still asked) me before hand. I wouldn't have a problem with a male student, I was at the hospital from 35 weeks until I had him at 38 weeks and about a million different people male and female checked my cervix so quite frankly by the end of it I didn't give a crap who came and had a look!!! ------------- 
 
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Posted By: aimeejoy
Date Posted: 01 October 2007 at 1:30pm
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I would have had a male student at Hannah's birth. I guess having been on the other side, and having had students with me at work in the past, I see how important it is for students to actually be involved. So many of our health degrees are so theoretical now,and they have very limited hands on practice and it really is the only way to learn. I know I came out of uni into my first job and although I had a great theoretical knowledge etc, I had no idea how I was supposed to get someone out of bed! ------------- Aimee Hannah 22/10/05 Greer 11/02/08 |
Posted By: Maya
Date Posted: 01 October 2007 at 2:12pm
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I had a student m/w during my pregnancy with Maya, she was supposed to be at the birth as well but she didn't turn up and my m/w was pissed as heck about it coz she reckoned the student was only turning up to deliveries when it suited her and not to ones like mine which started at 11pm. Had she turned up she would have been at the birth.
I never had one with the gremlins, I don't think my m/w would have allowed it coz of the twin thing, but when I was in hospital antenatally when they threatened to come early my OB came to see me with a whole team of students who all got to have a poke and a prod of my babies. I didn't really get a choice about that but if I'd been uncomfortable about it I would have said something. It's just not something that bothers me particularly, people have to learn somewhere. What I want to know tho is why are so many OB's male? What would give a guy motivation to become an OB and spend half his life with his head/hands up womens jacksies? ------------- Maya Grace (28/02/03)
 (02/01/06)
The Gremlins:Sienna Marie & Mercedes Kailah (14/10/06)
Lil miss:Chiara Louise Chloe (09/07/08)
Her ladyship:Rosalia Sophie Anais (18/06/12)
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Posted By: daikini
Date Posted: 01 October 2007 at 3:00pm
Umm... Emma, think about what you just said, and then think about all the 20-25yo men you know... what do they spend their social life doing? So why wouldn't they want to become an OB?  ------------- Becca, mum of 2 girls & 3 boys |
Maya wrote:Posted By: chuffed
Date Posted: 01 October 2007 at 4:27pm
| I had a student dr with dd (1st child) in UK and it was great. She was the only constant right through the labour and she was there for about 20hrs. By having a student there the midwives, dr's etc were more likely to explain everything better which meant we had a good understanding of what was happening. |
Posted By: Andie
Date Posted: 01 October 2007 at 4:49pm
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Yeah I dunno why a guy would want to do that job either. I had a a student midwife there for Ella's birth - turned out well, because she was there for my midwife appts through my 3rd trimester (so I had gotten to know her a bit), and acted more as a support staff to my midwife at the birth, freeing her up to attend to me more. She was great there - not obtrusive at all, and just really very helpful. Then again, I struck it lucky with her - I imagine she'll be a very good midwife. ------------- Andie |
Posted By: MummyFreckle
Date Posted: 01 October 2007 at 5:32pm
I used to work at NWH and I once asked a young med student (male) that exact question - he gave quite a profound answer about being bale to be actively involved in bringing a life into the world, rather than just treating illness or preventing the loss of life. Which I think is a neat way of looking at it. Still - its kind of like dentists / podiatrists too - I always wonder why you would want to spend your entire career with you hands in someones mouth or touching their feet!!! ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: busymum
Date Posted: 01 October 2007 at 7:06pm
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It's something I've often wondered too. But then I suppose I should be rather thankful since there aren't many women in that profession, so at least the men keep the numbers up! Maybe the women are having their own babies lol ------------- |
Posted By: mum2paris
Date Posted: 01 October 2007 at 8:56pm
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lol.. maybe women are sick of the sight of "jacksies" as Emma put it. Guys.. on the other hand.. would probably never tire of it. PMSL. ------------- Janine and her 2 cool chicks, Paris & Ayja
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Posted By: mummy_becks
Date Posted: 01 October 2007 at 9:27pm
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So true Emma. In Palmy they are all men apart from 1 woman and she hasn't had a baby so has no idea what it is like being 37 weeks pregnant and have a toxic body and think that its ok to make you stay pregnant for at least another 3 weeks. All the men have children thou. My BIL is a nurse (only took him 6 years and that was full time study) and he couldn't pass his maternity placement here in Palmy as noone wanted him to observe (I don't blame anyone thou) as they didn't feel safe with him (to which I don't blame them again - tall, long straggly blonde hair, looks really dodgy - would you want that in the delivery room with you), so it took him a placement out of the region to pass it. ------------- I was a puree feeder, forward facing, cot sleeping, pram pushing kind of Mum... and my kids survived! |
Posted By: nikkitheknitter
Date Posted: 02 October 2007 at 11:38am
| I had a student mw (or doc?) at Hannah's birth... well actually, she might have arrived with the OB *just* after I pushed Han out. I'm not at all worried about students. Had a med student present at my IUD insertion too... turned out she was in a class with one of my friends so I embarrassed the crap out of her by having a conversation about him while she was 'examining' me. hehehe I wonder where my humility went?? |
Posted By: nikkitheknitter
Date Posted: 02 October 2007 at 11:39am
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Maybe next time I give birth (disclaimer: not any time soon) I will invited around 10 of them in... that should atleast help the cause!
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Posted By: Rachael21
Date Posted: 04 October 2007 at 1:49pm
| Lol nikki I had a student when I got my IUD in too and she was standing there holding my hand talking to me and then would lean over and have a wee look, man it was embarassing. |
Posted By: nikkitheknitter
Date Posted: 04 October 2007 at 2:41pm
Yeah well, she was just looking. Mine was a bit more hands on than that! hehehehehe I'm super glad it wasn't my friend tho. He'd just finished his OB/GYNAE module. Now that'd have been seriously embarrassing. |
Posted By: Jay_R
Date Posted: 05 October 2007 at 11:58am
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I had a student doctor in the room when I was trying to push Joshua out. He was awesome, and I'm glad he was there. When it transpired that I needed a c-section he was the one who reassured me that all was ok, that I'd done really well but now I had to let the Dr's do the work.
I'd have another one if I was to have a VBAC ever. |
Posted By: peachy
Date Posted: 05 October 2007 at 1:06pm
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My m/w asked yesterday if her student m/w could attend our birth. I have agreed to it as I have met her and she is such an awesome and inspiring women that I immediately had a repall (sp?) with.
Anyone who can assist me through labour/birth is more than welcome to be present, but then again I am not a private person at all and have very little embarrassment with anything to do with my body, so I am pretty open to anything really. ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: mum2paris
Date Posted: 05 October 2007 at 1:14pm
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Yay, good on you Peachy! I think from remembering, a student midwife has to be present at approx 20 births before the end of their 3rd year. Doesn't sound like many but i imagine it would be hard to get those numbers. ------------- Janine and her 2 cool chicks, Paris & Ayja
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Posted By: LittleBug
Date Posted: 11 October 2007 at 12:24am
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I wouldn't have a problem with a midwifery student attending. As for a medical student... well, I guess since I study at the med school, that is my main motivation for not wanting one there (I might know them, and I wouldn't want that!) I don't think my DH would want a male student there, not for our first child at least. I wouldn't mind having one present after we have our first child and if I didn't know them.
I had to go to hospital recently after a fall, I had some bleeding etc. and I had a med student looking after me to start with. I was really p*ssed off about it because firstly, no one asked me if he could be there. Secondly, he was such a dufus. Seriously, no personal skills at all. He had to ask me about ten times how far along I was, and he made a huge deal about how the gynae couldn't find my cervix during a smear (he was really shocked about it, actually it's pretty common... anyway he made me feel really retarded like I had some screwed up "bits" or something). He talked about it for like 5 mins. And after he finished questioning me (which was very difficult because he didn't seem to listen to anything I was saying), he went into the hallway and talked about me really loudly to a nurse. I'm pretty sure most of the corridor would have heard him talking... anyway, he was saying that he doesn't think there is anything wrong with me since I have no pain anymore. I was like "helloo??" the whole reason I went to hospital is because I was in so much pain I couldn't sit or stand, I told him that... but somehow he took it to mean that I had no pain!? Anyway, he really REALLY put me off. I was just about crying in frustration when I heard him talking in the hallway, I had been waiting for a while and then to hear him say that... I thought they would just discharge me or something. Luckily the Reg didn't even care what he had to say, and she admitted me, gave me pethidine and lots of scans, and found out that my placenta had been bleeding and that was causing the pain. The Reg didn't seem to like the student very much at all, so maybe I was just unlucky and got someone incompetent? I fully understand the need for learning etc. especially since I want to go into Medicine. But it is scary sometimes how little preparation that some students get. My med student flatmate is always telling me scare stories though, which probably puts me off as well
As I said though, I wouldn't mind having students present at my second birth, provided I was informed of the role they would play. And I would be even happier if it was a midwifery student, or a student that wanted a career in ob/gyn, because they are the ones that want to have a career from babies... whereas most of the med students are just on their ob/gyn run and just have to fill a quota of births. If you get a good student, it's apparently really good because they act as another support person, making you more comfortable, holding your hand if you need it, etc. which can be useful (especially if your partner is late getting to the hospital or if you don't have anyone there to support you other than your midwife). Sorry about my long rant  ------------- Chloe (4 years) and Oliver (3 years). |
Posted By: LMac
Date Posted: 11 October 2007 at 4:58pm
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I think that they all have to learn somewhere. WIth the birth of my twins i had a young training doctor who was with me from the time i went into the delivery suite form the ward and he stayed in the theatre with me (i had to have an emergency c-section) and he stayed with my boys when they went to the neonatal unit. Not a straight forward case for him to go through but probably an awesome learning experience full of so many different things - blood transfusions, central lines in the neck , c-section and right at the beginning just standard antenatal stuff.
If people dont let the training staff in to see what happens - whether it be good cases or bad - then they are never going to learn properly. They dont have to be hands on and you can always say that you have had enough of them there. I just think back to job interviews where people wont employ you because you dont have enough experience - its the same type of thing  How are they suppose to learn if nobody will give them a chance
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Posted By: lilfatty
Date Posted: 11 October 2007 at 6:17pm
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I wouldnt mind having a student or even students present at the birth, it also wouldnt worry me if they were female, male or transgender Ive had male doctors perform smears etc so I dont really see the big deal..... after reading the posts I just asked DH if he would care if a male student was present to which he replied ... why would i? its not like you are going to be at your most attractive, and I have a feeling the last thing the guy is going to be thinking about is sex! lol.
------------- Mummy to Issy (3) and Elias (18 months) I did it .. 41 kgs gone! From flab to fab in under a year  http://www.femininefitness.co.nz/category/blog - LFs weight blog
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Posted By: jldev
Date Posted: 27 October 2007 at 3:51pm
| I had my first baby Georgia 9 years ago so the memories getting vague but I certainly do remember being in the delivery suite, when there was a knock on the door and it was a doctor with a group of med students wondering if they could come in and watch! As if, and my lovely midwife did not even have to ask me before she declined their request. However, with my second and third deliveries I don't think I would have minded having ONE med student there but never a GROUP!! |
Posted By: Rachael21
Date Posted: 27 October 2007 at 8:07pm
lol so true |
Posted By: Two Blondinis
Date Posted: 28 October 2007 at 12:09pm
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One of my MWs was just qualified so she went through the whole pregnancy with me and was also in the theatre for Caitlin's birth.
I didn't have any issues with that because she was lovely and there was only 1 of her! lol I totally agree that medical professionals have to learn somewhere, but they also have to remember the womans dignity. 1 or 2 students would be ok but certainly not a crowd of them ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
 
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Posted By: peachy
Date Posted: 28 October 2007 at 1:51pm
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Slightly off topic but just wanted to add, I had a male obstetrician present at quite a lot of our birth due to the brow presentation and posterior, so he was monitoring me as they were tossing up trying vontuse delivery. I had no problems with a male being in the room at all, he was there to do a job, not look at me in a sexual way! I also had a male anethitist who put in the epidural, he came in I was fully naked, he was a little embarassed and I was like buddy if you can put an end to my pain, I don't care what part of my body you can see!!! Just get that pain relief going and get me down to theatre so I can have this baby!! ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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