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aimeejoy View Drop Down
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    Posted: 24 March 2008 at 1:38pm
Help! The cranial osteo work was quite successful for a few days, but now Greer is sooo unsettled that I'm not really enjoying her at all.

She is ok when she first wakes up unless she is hungry, then she cries. She cries lots after a breastfeed and spills quite a bit (she has stopped the back arching since cranial stuff). She will lie for a while on the floor but then starts crying again and needs to be carted around. Now she won't go to sleep herself - during the day she sleeps best on her tummy, and at night she is fed to sleep and is only up for about 15 minutes so its not a problem. She is putting on plenty of weight. All of this unsettledness started around 3 weeks - before that she was an angel, going to bed awake and feeding and sleeping really well.

I am taking her back to the naturopath this week and seeing GP for 6 week check on Thursday.

So do you think she is just an unsettled baby? I tend to think there must be a reason if all her needs are met.

Or, reflux? Not convinced on this either...

Or, reacting to what I'm eating? Which I think is kinda likely. I havent had any dairy, egg or nut products since she was born and had a very minimal amount while pregnant, esp 3rd trimester, to delay her exposure. All this started around 3 weeks which is when Hannah started to get rashy/eczema from the dairy and egg in my diet. So now I am worried that its wheat causing her issues and becasue I havent been having the dairy and eggs I have been eating more bread/pasta etc. A midwife suggested to me that bread can be a problem with spilling so I cut that out a week or so ago and she seemed a bit better. Until the day I had scones for lunch and pasta for dinner...

Argh, this is so frustrating. So I am trying wheat free as well for a few weeks then reintroduce to see if it makes a difference. Remembered last night while I was scoffing marshmellows instead of choc that theres a lot of wheat in them too! God, my diet is so boring - am worried my milk will deteriorate from such a restricted diet but will talk to GP this week. Not having much chocolate either in case thats the problem - feeling very sorry for myself.

Do you think its worth trying her with a bottle of Neocate to see if she is any more settled after a feed? Feel so nervous about giving her formula even tho I know she will be fine with it.

Sorry for such a long rambly post and not even sure what I'm asking... I guess am after your opinions as I am slowly starting to lose the plot...

Edited by aimeejoy
Aimee

Hannah 22/10/05
Greer 11/02/08
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cuppatea View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cuppatea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2008 at 3:00pm
I dunno but s to you, sounds like you have hardly anything you can actually eat. I buy rice bread for Spencer so you could have that while cutting out the wheat.
I'm not sure how much one bottle of neocate would tell you really, when we swapped from normal formula to neocate it definitely took a few days to notice the difference.

I also tend to think something is wrong when babies are unsettled but I have read that some babies cry for no reason.

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aimeejoy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aimeejoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2008 at 3:43pm
Well I gave her a bottle and she definitely spilled less and was generally less grumpy - maybe cos I actually enjoyed feeding her and wasnt feeling wound up... Forgot to mention above that she has started mucking around when feeding and coming on and off, crying etc.

Thanks for the hugs too, kinda feel like I need them.
Aimee

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Maya View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2008 at 4:16pm
Oh no Aimee, big hugs! I have goosebumps and big tears for you coz reading your post is like reading my life when the gremlins were tiny. No dairy, no egg, no soy, no nuts and still they spilled and screamed and refluxed and didn't sleep. I too wondered if it was wheat, panicked about what else I could possibly be eating that was upsetting them, and ended up doing a weeks trial on Neocate. They were 10 weeks by that stage and had been screaming up to 20 hours per day since they were 3 weeks old. Even the Plunket nurses at Family Centre were unable to settle them and sent me back to the GP as both gremlins had such vile intestinal wind and bowel motions.

I started them on the Neocate but kept expressing every feed so my milk supply didn't drop so that if the Neocate made no difference I could put them back on breastmilk. Within two days they were different babies, by the end of the first week the reflux was almost gone and their skin, which had been rashy and exczema-y was clearing up. I then trialled Sienna back on the breastmilk (as her reflux was never as severe as Mercedes)and within 24 hours she was a screaming mess, so I got my answer - it WAS something in my milk.

I constantly wondered WHAT it was in my milk that upset them but I wasn't in a position to keep eliminating more foods from my diet coz I still needed to be able to make enough milk to feed them both, and I might never have isolated the problem.

I expected to get an answer when we weaned them onto solids/allergy tested them but they came back all clear. It *may* have been banana in my diet as Mercedes was allergic to that as a smallish baby but she quickly outgrew it and they've been fine with everything except nuts so far.

Jan Sinclair officially diagnosed them with Cows Milk Protein Intolerance at 5 mths based on their history, she said it was likely we'd never know what caused the reflux/unsettledness other than that evidence seemed to point to my breastmilk.

Good luck with the doc this week, my best advice would be to ask for an urgent referral to a paed. If the waiting list is too long in Palmy then I'd just rock up to the Emergency Dept with her and make someone listen, you and your baby don't need to be going thru this.

Are you in a position to trial the Neocate for a few days and see if it makes a noticeable difference? It may take a few days for it to be obvious as reflux causes damage to the oesophagus that doesn't heal instantly.

You could also look at reflux meds (we had Mercedes on Losec) but we found once the gremlins were on Neocate they had no need for meds.

Best of luck, I really, really feel for you, this sucks! I went thru a HUGE grieving phase for the breastfeeding too, I felt guilty that my milk made them sick and that I had stubbornly persevered with breastfeeding for weeks when if I had given up earlier I could have spared them weeks of pain, but at the end of the day it is what it is, and if this wee bub looks to be the same way I will be much more onto it much more quickly.

And at least it didn't get as bad as it did with Maya, she ended up in hospital with gastric bleeding at 10 mths from dairy in my breastmilk

Thinking of you, PM me if there's anything I can do!
Maya Grace (28/02/03)
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The Gremlins:Sienna Marie & Mercedes Kailah (14/10/06)
Lil miss:Chiara Louise Chloe (09/07/08)
Her ladyship:Rosalia Sophie Anais (18/06/12)
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aimeejoy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aimeejoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2008 at 4:42pm
Thanks mate, I have been waiting for you to reply I have decided to trial the Neocate (thanks Andie!!) for a few days and express in the meantime. I felt soooo incredibly guilty feeding her a bottle before and enjoying it, cos I am very pro-bfing. But trying to feel ok about it as I would much rather that than persevere as we were. I also feel really guilty about it potentially being something in my milk... Ah well, would much prefer a happy baby
Aimee

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aimeejoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2008 at 4:43pm
Oh and interesting you mentioned they started the screaming at 3 weeks as well.
Aimee

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Maya View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2008 at 5:03pm
Originally posted by aimeejoy aimeejoy wrote:

Ah well, would much prefer a happy baby


In the end that's all that matters, oh and of course a happy mum, and in my experience a mum that's not listening to screaming all day is a damn sight happier...

Originally posted by aimeejoy aimeejoy wrote:

Oh and interesting you mentioned they started the screaming at 3 weeks as well.


Classic reflux, it usually starts between 2-3 weeks unfortunately

Hang in there!

Good luck over the next few days.
Maya Grace (28/02/03)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kellz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2008 at 7:24pm
Yep Isla was pretty much like a normal baby at first,..by 2 weeks she was a shocker! She never spilt so her silent reflux wasnt diagniosed til 5 months old. It was a few months later than the allergys were diagnosed, and things started to improve.
I cant say I enjoyed her at all for at least 6 months, which is awful but tru. Its hard to enjoty something that is never happy.

Big hugs. Really hope u get some answers soon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aimeejoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2008 at 7:42pm
Thanks ladies. I really really appreciate the support on here - dont know what I'd do without ya!

So, expressing and bottle feeding is such a PITA isnt it?! Hopefully by the time we see the GP in a couple of days we will have more of an idea and I can either go back to bfing or stop expressing. And hopefully if I do keep bfing, my supply isnt affected too much

She went to bed lots easier tonight, still had to be cuddled asleep then put on her tummy, but drifted off heaps quicker.
Aimee

Hannah 22/10/05
Greer 11/02/08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2008 at 8:13pm
Yep it is a GIANT PITA! I did it for 10 long weeks and gutted as I was to have to give up the breastmilk, part of me was relieved coz formula was so much less precious, and I didn't get so upset if they didn't finish their bottles!

Glad Greer went down easier tonight, long may it continue! Have you got the end of her cot/bassinette raised? That can help a little.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aimeejoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2008 at 8:18pm
Yep. But she has been heaps less spilly (pretty much none) for the formula feeds...
Aimee

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2008 at 8:18pm

oh no, Aimee... your first post is a massive flashback to when Ella was little!  And 4 months later when I found out what it all was, it was you and Emma supporting me through it with your masses of 'been there' practical advice and cyber-hugs... so you hang in there, chick, because you're an expert at this stuff already.  But my heart really breaks for you because I understand the terror of waiting to see if your child is gonna go through what your first did - friggin allergies!!!  They effect the whole family, don't they - but let's face it, hardest on the mums while the kids are little.  Hugest of hugs to you, Aimee - this stinks.  And of course, I'm hoping it's a bad phase at will be left at that.  Don't be shy about trying out different reflux meds if it is reflux - Ranitidine was a life-saver in our house, and different babies benefit from different reflux meds from what I hear, so it's worth trying different ones if the first doesn't help at all. 

I 'get' the feelings that you go through when breastfeeding isn't a good experience for baby and mum, and gotta say don't for one minute be blaming yourself here - you've gone above and beyond with your diet already and are such a trooper!  Hmmmm, I think I'll PM you to go on...

Andie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2008 at 8:23pm
Originally posted by aimeejoy aimeejoy wrote:

Yep. But she has been heaps less spilly (pretty much none) for the formula feeds...


Yay! We had the same thing, with breastmilk they would powerchuck like something out of the Exorcist lol, it was spooky. You'd get a little cough and you'd know it was coming then bleurgh, a whole feed came back up to greet you. Maya learnt to call muslin cloths "spew cloths" coz they were always scattered around the house just in case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aimeejoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2008 at 8:38pm
Thanks Andie - you're a gem

LOL Emma, Hannah lies next to Greer on the floor and she knows to keep her distance now after two rather unfortunate experiences!! And yep, they're spew cloths here too We have had several of those exorcist chucks lately, and coming out the nose
Aimee

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aimeejoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2008 at 8:39pm
Oh and I have found a silver lining to the expressing thing! Cos I'mnot going to be feeding G for a few days, I can have a bit more chocolate!!
Aimee

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bizzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2008 at 8:49pm
i have nothing to add really cause have no experience re this at all... but do want to send my love and sympathy to you both and hope you get to the bottom of it soon.
if theres anything i can do from so far away just text me...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2008 at 8:49pm
LOL, that was me too, I trialled them on Neocate Xmas week so the up side was I got to have trifle and custard

LOL at Hannah, poor wee thing! I don't think we ever had it come out the nose tho, ewww!
Maya Grace (28/02/03)
(02/01/06)
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Lil miss:Chiara Louise Chloe (09/07/08)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caraMel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2008 at 9:22pm
God, I'm getting power chuck flashbacks as well.
Benjy was a projectile refluxer too, You'd hear it in his throat coming up and down and we'd be madly reaching for the cloth flats before he blew!
Go the chocolate Aimee, you so deserve it!
I really hope Neocate keeps helping wee Greer, its so heartbreaking to see them in pain and so hard to cope when nothing seems to help.
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aimeejoy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aimeejoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2008 at 8:33am
We had a sh*t of a night But today is another day and it WILL be better...
Aimee

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2008 at 8:54am

Hmmmm, bring on that Doc's appt. 

In all seriousness, if Greer does have reflux, girl you need to go shopping - you can't have too many baby clothes (and some extra tops for yourself) if your kid is a power-chucker.  And we had around 100 bibs (I kid you not) for Ella at the time.  Oh yes, now you have a decent excuse for buying stuff!!! 

It's heartbreaking to have to chuck EBM - if you have a glass of wine with tea it mightn't be so difficult?!?  I mean, no-one wants to give their baby wine-milk, do they?! 

Hey don't go feeling guilty about finding it so hard to enjoy little Greer at this stage - I can honestly say that the times I enjoyed Ella as a newborn were few and far between, and it wasn't a reflection of her personality or anything long-lasting, it was like Kellz said - circumstances really didn't lend themselves to bonding and enjoyment.  But I know other mums on here who found the same with their littlies, and it's absolutely no reflection on their parenting or the child's temperament... it's a phase and it dissappears, thank God!  I don't want to make light of it and do the whole pollyanna thing, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel! 

Andie
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