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weegee View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 June 2010 at 2:47pm
So I know there are a few of us who are currently pregnant and have been doing lots of research and planning to get our VBACs. I was hoping to get a little list going in here so we know when we're all due so we can celebrate and learn from each other's births as they happen

By "VBAC roll call" I don't mean those who've already had one (although I welcome your support!), nor do I mean those who are "going to give it a go" but are happy if they end up with another c section - I'm talking those of us who are really taking measures to try to ensure we don't end up being cut again. (Sorry if that offends anyone planning a "trial labour".)

Can you please post your due date in here (or approximate due dates, if you're a hippie like me without an exact EDD)? If you'd like to share, you could also add things like what reading/prep you've done, what you think contributed to your c section last time, and how you're planning to avoid those this time? (I'm currently writing that stuff in a second post, but I'll put this introductory post up for now )

VBAC roll call
weegee - due mid-late July

Mum to JJ, 4 July 2008 & Addie, 28 July 2010
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weegee View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weegee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2010 at 3:13pm
I've done MASSES of reading, a lot of it online, educating myself about labour and birth in general and learning to trust my body. I'm happy to post links if people want them but that'd probably be preaching to the choir in here so I won't for now.

What do I think contributed to my c section last time? Quite a few things all added up.

- I had a few stretch and sweeps before I went into labour. I was just saying in my due date thread I think that could have weakened my membranes, so they ruptured earlier than they otherwise would have, which reduced the effectiveness of my contractions and contributed to the length of labour (and also adversely affected JJ's health - the c section was called because he was starting to go into distress, prolonged rupture of membranes can cause infection, and it was one of the reasons he spent 5 days in SCBU, that and just not effectively clearing mucous from his lungs because he didn't go through the birth canal).

- I wasn't adequately mentally prepared for the idea of the second stage of labour in particular. I've blocked a lot of labour out of my memory but I do remember very clearly thinking "I'm not sure I've thought through this". I've combatted that this time by doing all that reading, watching and reading lots of birth stories. I also have prepared myself a list of quotes, affirmations and little reminders for during labour to help keep my mind in the right place. One of the hypnobirthing books I read suggested that the birthing mother shouldn't be told how far dilated she is - that was something I was going to try last time but I caved and asked early on, which demoralised me as I was only 3cm then. I know more about the maths of it all now to not be as demoralised in the same situation this time, but think I'm going to try that again.

- The hospital environment really wasn't conducive to giving birth - so sterile and so brightly lit. Again, I don't remember much but I do remember so many bright fluorescent lights! Ideally I would be going for a HBAC but my mw didn't feel comfortable with that and I thought it was more important to feel comfortable with my mw iygwim (see next point). Anyway I'm not going back to North Shore Hospital (Caesar's Palace!) but planning to birth at Waitakere then get out of there as soon as possible and transfer to Helensville Birthing Centre. My birth plan has that I want to keep light levels as low as possible, I want to be only minimally monitored (writing a letter to ensure that the OBs are aware that's an informed choice!), am taking some home comforts like a couple of my own pillows and a blanket, that sort of thing.

- Support. Due to the length of my labour, and the fact that my mw had already attended one birth prior to mine, my mw had to leave the morning after I had gone into labour, as she said she was now overtired and worried she wouldn't be making the best choices regarding my care, so handed care over to the hospital team. We had a lovely student mw there too but she was a walking zombie by that afternoon and basically got kicked out and told to go home and rest. After that I felt there was no continuity and nobody really had my interests at heart. DH was as solid as he could be but was more terrified than I was (he's had a bit of reeducating too now!) which I did take on board (anybody read any Michel Odent?) and he certainly wasn't going to argue with me about anything This time around I am having a close friend be a "fairy godmother" to support me (and potentially argue with me if I start suggesting I want things I really don't) as well as a CBE student (because I know having the student mw there last time was actually really helpful). I know lots of people want an intimate setting in terms of people but I feel this will help provide me with a bit of continuity (and take some pressure off DH).

- Intervention. Partly because I wasn't mentally prepared I asked for an epidural quite early on, really. This meant that when JJ descended with asynclitic presentation (he was trying to come out ear first) I wasn't able to move around to try to reposition him - he and I were both stuck. Similarly I was given syntocinon reasonably early on as the contractions didn't seem to be working very well - they ramped up the intensity but the midwives and OBs disagreed on dosages and things and played around with it so much that they basically ended up overstimulating my uterus, so it was constantly contracting and achieving very little. My birth plan this time says no epidural and no syntocinon unless absolutely medically necessary. If I ask for an epidural, I want my support team to question me and try to change my mind. Perhaps I should put that I have to ask three times or something Certainly everybody in the room will be told that nobody is to ask if they can "give her something for the pain" because I don't want it suggested to me.

On the note of pain relief - we have attended a massage for pregnancy and birth workshop which was FABULOUS, highly recommended. I still need to investigate whether I'll be allowed in the water. Other than that, I'm happy enough with my body and feel confident that now I have let go of a lot of the fear and tension there will be less pain.

There's more but I've got a mind blank for now, this has really helped me writing it all out like this though! I recommend it!

Mum to JJ, 4 July 2008 & Addie, 28 July 2010
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mummyofprinces Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2010 at 4:50pm

VBAC roll call
weegee - due mid-late July [:)
MelNel - 12 October 2010


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mummyofprinces Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2010 at 4:52pm
have a napping toddler on in my ar5ms so will come back for the rest


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fire_engine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2010 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by weegee weegee wrote:

I've done MASSES of reading, a lot of it online, educating myself about labour and birth in general and learning to trust my body. I'm happy to post links if people want them but that'd probably be preaching to the choir in here so I won't for now.


Links would be good for us who aren't VBACers but are VBA-traumatic 1st-VB (and hoping to avoid the traumatic bit the 2nd time round)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weegee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2010 at 3:42pm
Ok, just went through my bookmarks, not exhaustive but a good range here.

A little not-so-light reading/viewing

The Business of Being Born (a 700MB download or ask me to lend you a DVD copy)

Spinning Babies (about optimal foetal positioning)

My favourite ">Birth Story - warning some graphic pictures so don't look if you're squeamish about perineums! Also very hippyish so possibly don't bother if homebirthing, tandem nursing and placentophagia are going to turn you off

Gloria Lemay's blog

Joyous Birth (there's a special section on Birth Trauma too)

Birth articles on the Peaceful Parenting blog
(and for books, there's a great list here)

Birth International

Sarah Buckley's website

The Unnecesarean

WombEcology by Michel Odent

The Peaceful Birth Project

Mum to JJ, 4 July 2008 & Addie, 28 July 2010
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Mum to two wee boys
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AzzaNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2010 at 7:40pm
VBAC roll call
weegee - due mid-late July [:)
MelNel - 12 October 2010
AzzaNZ (Tanya) - 02 September 2010



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fadeless Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2010 at 7:46pm
Just wanna jump in and say i know how you feel 6years ago i was 9wks away from having my VBAC after LOTS of research and LOTS of positive thoughs and to show all those people (midwife) that said i couldnt VBAC as my pelvis 'must be too small' since i couldnt birth my 7lbs 12oz baby girl, i hate being told i cant do anything lol.

Chiropractor visit at 32wks into pregnancy #2 only to find out i had a twisted pelvis and 1wk later my DD was engaged and I VBACed my 9lb baby girl 13mths after my c/s! Going for my 4th VBAC and 3rd homebirth in 8wks time!

Its an amazing time and stay positive and be surrounded with positive people and you can do it! Good Luck to you :D
DD 9 ~ DD 8 ~ DS 7 ~ DS 5 ~ DS 2 ~ DS 14mths ~ DD 3mths
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AzzaNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2010 at 7:46pm
My c-section was "elective" due to my daughter being breech. We tried spinning babies, accupuncture, homeopathy, ice packs, torches, hot water bottles and begging to turn her. One midwife tried, then the OB tried. All agreed she had engaged bum and one foot down and that she was not going to turn, by which time I was exhausted and feeling like a failure so I asked for a c-section. I never went into labour.

This time I have found an experienced VBAC midwife. I am reading any books and websites I can get my hands on, I am doing an antenatal course and I am trying to stay calm and just take things as they come.

I dont have a birth plan. My hope is that baby is not breech. Then my next hope is that I go into labour by 42 weeks (and I have ensured my due date as the doctors know it allows me an extra week). Then I aim to try stay home as long as possible (including the birth if I can cope).

DH is not hugely supportive and believes anything a nurse/doctor says so I may try find a doula.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weegee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2010 at 9:33pm
Yay more VBACers! fadeless, what an awesome story, and I'm a bit jealous of your homebirth

AzzaNZ - she's not a doula, but my CBE student is on the North Shore and I think she's still looking for births to attend as a support person, do you want her contact details?

Mum to JJ, 4 July 2008 & Addie, 28 July 2010
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mummyofprinces Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2010 at 10:21pm
So my story...

I was induced at 38+3 with what I was led to believe was PE at the time. (Investigations with new mw have left us both puzzled as to the actual reason for induction so looking forward to meeting the OB in 15 weeks time!).

At 34 weeks Jake was diagnosed with Asymmetrical IUGR and was in the 4th perantile and so our monitoring began. From what we do know is that my platelets were bouncing around like a yoyo and did get down to 105 at one point but went back up again and my Uric Acid levels were increasing at a very fast rate which indicates there were some issues with my kidney function. Jake however at 38 week scan was back in the 15th percantile and no longer IUGR although my induction notes state this as one of the reasons for the induction (confused, so are we!).

So the first thing I think led to our section was an induction that may have been held off...

Second, after 35 hours I was only 1cm dilated and my waters were broken. I was left on my own (DH had gone to grab some food) and my contractions came like a freight train.. from 0 to 100 in 15 minutes! I went into mental shock and this set me up badly as I panicked.. BIG TIME.

3 hours later I was checked again and I was 4cm dilated and still freaking out, instead of offering good suggestions (my mw back up new I didnt want drugs and least intervention as possible) she suggested pethadine (in hindsight I should have taken it and got a bit of rest but it makes me vomit and that was the last thing I wanted) so she offered an epi... which I took and still regret! Second contributing factor to section!

40 minutes after the epi was given synto was started... My mw did not wait and see if I continued to dilate without and prior to the epi I was having very good, strong contractions. My new mw and I think the added pressure of the synto led to J become distressed and turning from perfect position to transverse.. his heart rate soon started to drop to 60 BPM with each contraction and the section was called.

Funnily enough, his heart rate was fine as soon as the synto was stopped but my cervix was swelling and he wasnt moving position and no way he was coming out that way....

I know more now, I should have questioned the induction, I should have told the mw to get lost when she offered me the epi and I should have said no synto for 1 hr 30 minutes post epi going in...

You live and learn!

This time I am armed and dangerous! (so is DH, no pushing us around now!).


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoJames Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2010 at 10:43pm
*Semi Lurking*
Already had my successful VBAC, so totally know what you guys are feeling, just to add, one thing that the MW is sure helped with a good birth even with a posterior baby, was taking 5W and EPO from 35 weeks, active labour was only 3 hours.
I agree with you Weegee about having a really strong advocate in the room that can fight for your wishes, If the baby hadn't come out when he did, thanks to an episiotomy, the OB would have pushed for a c-section, which I didn't need or want, thankfully I had a brilliant MW.
Good Luck Guys, best wishes for a happy and healthy pregnancy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AzzaNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 June 2010 at 10:07am
Originally posted by JoJames JoJames wrote:

*Semi Lurking*
Already had my successful VBAC, so totally know what you guys are feeling, just to add, one thing that the MW is sure helped with a good birth even with a posterior baby, was taking 5W and EPO from 35 weeks, active labour was only 3 hours.
I agree with you Weegee about having a really strong advocate in the room that can fight for your wishes, If the baby hadn't come out when he did, thanks to an episiotomy, the OB would have pushed for a c-section, which I didn't need or want, thankfully I had a brilliant MW.
Good Luck Guys, best wishes for a happy and healthy pregnancy


JoJames, where can you get 5W and EPO?

I know EPO can be taken both orally and vaginally but what is 5W and how is it used?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoJames Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 June 2010 at 9:25pm
I got them both from the chemist, you need one that has a good range of herbal products, also the naturopath sells it, Its made by natures sunshine, 5w is a herbal concotion containing
Black Cohosh root
Squaw Vine herb
Dong Quai root
Butcher's Broom
Red Raspberry leaf
I took something like 6 a day so it got a little expensive, but I would have done anything to avoid another caeser.
I only took the EPO orally 3x a day, but my MW swears by it vaginally.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mummyofprinces Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 June 2010 at 9:33pm
LOL JoJames, thats my plan too but I am braving the EPO both ends too plus 5W and as much raspberry leaf tea as I can stomach!

Also planning on accupuncture too and am still in 2 minds about hypnobirthing... but need to make up my mind soon! Hoping to drag DH along to preg massage class too and really need to motivate myself back into yoga (have not done any since I feel pregnant!).

Just want to give my body as much of a chance as possible! I am panicking about contractions this week though... I remember they hurt and I scared i will wimp out and take the evil epi


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What a cool thread!

I'm a bit if an intruder here, cos I didn't have a c, but I had much more intervention than I wanted and I plan to do some things differently next time.

I did heaps of research before I had Caty to make sure a home birth was the right choice, and my MW said my state of mind during labour probably avoided a caesarean. So I thought I'd share a few things that I've learnt...

I'll start with my birth story: Waters broke at 9am, contractions started just after. Went about my day till about 2, rang MW at 4 - I was 3cm. Pocket of waters over bubs head, so break must be higher up. Waters had light meconium staining (not uncommon at 9 days overdue) but went to hosp for monitoring at 7pm. Everything looked fine so back home by 9pm to labour on our own for a bit. Called MW to join us at 1am. I was 5cm and fully effaced. Eventually got in pool, which was great. By 5.30am I was falling deeply asleep between contractions cos 'I was exhausted. Started to worry I'd drown if I stayed in the pool so got out to use loo. Still 5cm and no longer fully effaced - cervix starting to swell. MW suggests hospital transfer. 6.30am arrived in hosp, start to feel scared. MW offers gas which I take and instantly feel very faint. Lie down to prevent fainting and don't feel up to walking around at all. 7am OB checks - still 5cm. She breaks waters and recommends epidural and synto. MW agrees. The monitor shows my contractions are a mess so DH says he thinks we agree to synto but epi is up to me. At this point the room is spinning so I just agree when MW asks. Anaesthetist is called but refuses to come in - his shift ends at 8. At 8 the next bloke is called and agrees to come in. By 8.30 he is there. I am made to sit up and instantly feel better. Want to say I've changed my mind but know he's come in specially so I don't. Line is inserted and pain goes through the roof. I'm screaming in agony - apparently its not meant to be like that. He rings hospital specialist, who comes. He rings national specialist who advises they use it anyway. This takes nearly an hour. During the wait, someone suggests the baby might have turned posterior, so i'm checked again - 8cm and clearly going to dilate fully. I want to say take the epi line out, let me do this, but they now have the national specialist on the phone so I do what he says. Also during the wait, DH, whose hands I have in a death grip starts looking really scared, and I can see he is struggling to see me like this. Concerned for him, I tell him that I'm ok, and that labour is meant to hurt, but thats ok too, and in reassuring him, I've reassured myself too. It's meant to hurt, but I can do this. Then the anaesthetic is inserted and I'm instructed to sleep. MW explains that sleep is the best chance I've got to regain some energy to go on, so I agree. While I'm asleep, the synto is amped up and the epi is continually topped up - I didn't realise it was an ongoing thing - I thought it would be worn off by pushing time. Just as I'm dozing off, before the epi has fully kicked in, I tell the MW that I feel pressure in my bum. In hindsight we think this was me reaching full dilation. I go to sleep around 10 am and wake at 11.30. I lie there listening to the heartrate rocking along at 140 bpm. At noon the MW comes back (I'd had the backup for a bit). She chats for a bit before checking me at 12.20. I'm 10cm, the head is well down and baby has lots of hair. She says she'll just call another MW to attend and leaves the room. DH and I are alone for the first time since arriving at hospital. At 12.25 the room suddenly starts spinning and I'm fighting to stay conscious. I see/hear the heartrate drop to 70bpm and DH and I look at each other in horror. He hits the call button and MW reappears asking whats up. She doesn't even finish her sentence as she sees the monitor which now shows the heartrate stuttering at 40 bpm. She hits the emergency button and the room explodes with people. a hurried discussion between MW and OB and then I'm being instructed when to push and DD is quickly delivered into the waiting arms of a paediatrician, with the help of an episiotomy and vonteuse. It's an agonising wait whislt the paed resuscitates our limp, grey baby and then announces we have a healthy baby girl .

So that was my story. Next time will be better!

I think your rule of no-one offering pain relief, weegee, is excellent. I was fine (ok, it hurt a LOT, but my comments about how much it hurt were a way of dealing with it for me, which DH recognised, but MW didn't). As soon as someone offered pain relief, it was as if they'd said that this was too much to cope with and I instantly started doubting myself.

I let myself get into a bit if a downward spiral once we transferred. I was all set to do the whole thing naturally at home myself, but I should also have prepared for the possibility of some intervention without it being a spiral of doom. I was right to agree to synto at the time, but I should have said no to the epi. Then I would have known I was fully dilated much earlier and not leave DD wedged down there getting distressed. I could have changed my mind about the epi later. In future I'll only agree to one thing at a time and give it a chance to make a difference before I accept something else.

I should have been worried only about me, DD and DH. So I would have inconvenienced the anaesthetist? Who cares?!

I think a positive experienced person would be great - I ended up being that for myself, but it would have been good to have someone do it for me sooner.

So thats my novel. Hope you don't mind the intrusion And I'll be into all if weegee's links once I'm pg again...

I really hope you all get awesome VBACS
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AzzaNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2010 at 8:27pm
Hey T-Rex! I think we can learn from your experience!

I know I'll be making a note that if we need pain meds/interventions to do one at a time and wait after reading your story.

I'll be doing EPO (both ends) from 35 weeks and will now also get myself some 5W



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T_Rex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2010 at 1:24pm
Thanks Azza. I thought of a couple of other things too -

If you are able to, when you know that today is the day, even if its 3 in the morning, eat a meal such as a marathon runner or someone would do before a marathon. You'll need good, long-lasting energy, and you might not feel like eating later on. Of course, you may chuck it all back up later, but you'll hopefully have got something out of it.

Keep drinking is also a biggy. I had a sipper bottle of water that I would take a sip from at the end of every contraction -sure it was only a tiny sip, but there were enough contractions that it added up
Dehydration is a recipe for trouble. I had also meant to switch out my water bottle for powerade-type drinks periodically because I've found those are really good for giving you a bit of a boost when I've been doing other *endurance* events.

I should add that I actually forgot to do either of these things, so I think it would be good to have a list of duties that one of your support people is in charge of. DH was really good at reminding me to drink my water. I should have made it his job to replace the water with powerade every few hours or so.

The other thing I really recommend is communicate with your MW about EVERY thing. Let her decide what is important and what's not. I wanted some things done, but waited for my MW's suggestions rather than making the suggestions myself. It's your body and you know it better than anyone, so if you think something might work, ask.

Thats all for now
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weegee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2010 at 2:21pm
Thanks heaps T_Rex I have also had powerade or similar suggested to me, definitely something to add to the arsenal. A grumpy OB last time told me off for eating in labour (I didn't even really eat anything, was mostly ice chips!) and I was pleased to see the article in the BMJ reinforcing that eating in labour is absolutely fine (and not sure why, but got a little chuckle from "food consumed by the women included fruit juice, soup, cereal, biscuits, fruits, chocolate, toast, vegetable stew, Danish pastry, sandwiches, burgers, chicken, and rice." I think it was the danish pastry I found funny.)

Mum to JJ, 4 July 2008 & Addie, 28 July 2010
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