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busymum View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02 February 2007 at 1:59pm
I don't have anyone in particular in mind, and I don't mean to offend... but I have a question for those of you who are still reading and that is, what about adopting a baby? I know a lot of couples don't want to go down that road (my sister included, she has been TTC for over a year without success) but I'm not really sure why. Is it just because there is no sharing on genes or have I missed something?
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Sarah Beth View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarah Beth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2007 at 2:04pm
I can't speak for others, but I know for my BIL, they have adopted 2 beautiful children, but for them the issues were more that all the rights fell with the mother, and they have a long time to claim back the child should they wish, no questions asked. They never really relaxed till that time had passed and lived in a bit of fear with the first that the child would be taken from them which would be heart breaking for them.

Adoption in NZ is also difficult with the mother being encouraged to keep the child in most circumstances.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ginger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2007 at 2:42pm
That's a really hard, but good question busymum!

For us, adoption isn't an option as DH feels *very* strongly about it. Whether he would give it more thought if all our other options were exhausted, I"m not sure. It is something, because of how he feels, I would cover with him at the time.

I think that DH's feelings revolve around nature vs nurture in an adoptive child - In my own family we have a horrific example of an adopted child who turned out to be, quite simply, evil to the bone. It's enough to put anyone off.

I do know though that that example is unusual. For myself, I would possibly consider going the adopt-an-orphan route, or adopting a child from a teenage pregnancy (I know someone who is a beautiful mother now, who adopted out a child she had at 15, who is also a beautiful girl and has thrived in her adoptive environment).

I think another consideration is, like Sarah Beth said, emotional. When you have been through everything you would have been through to get to the point where adoption is your only option, the heartbreak you *could* be setting yourself up for may just be too much to bear.

DH said to me not long ago that we had each other before we started our TTC journey, and if it doesn't work out, we will have each other after it ends as well. I think there comes a time when you have to preserve yourself and move forward with life, and everybody's breaking point is a little different.

Cuinn Lachlan 23.1.09 - 22:00
Antonia Helene 4.8.11 - 09:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2007 at 2:48pm
For me personally adoption was not something that I could even get my head around contemplating until all avenues of TTC our own offspring were totally exhausted. I think it is hard to say 'never' because you don't know how you will feel if you reach the end of the road of TTC your own biological child. But for us at the stage that we were at, it was our child - part of me and part of DH - that we wanted. I am not a particularly maternal person, I am not drawn to other people's children at all. I didn't just want a child, I wanted our child. I hope this doesn't sound too harsh, as I hadn't totally ruled out adoption, as I said I just hadn't really considered it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ginger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2007 at 2:53pm
You can't see it, but I'm nodding my head in agreement!

And do you know Lou, I think you hit the nail on the head a bit about wanting *your* child, and not being particularly maternal ...I think that's partly where my anxiety re my other post is coming from. I just couldn't recognise it!
Cuinn Lachlan 23.1.09 - 22:00
Antonia Helene 4.8.11 - 09:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote busymum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2007 at 4:43pm
That was the bit I guessed but I didn't know about the scary "buy-back" option SB Thanks all!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2007 at 8:24pm
I was adopted by my step dad (who i refer to as dad now) when i was 2.

I will never ever forget the pain and emotions i felt when i was told. I felt so deceived.

Its a hard question to answer no doubt about it i have 2 things that run through my mind coz we did think about it.

1 - I couldnt ever put a kid through what i went through. It truely is hard knowing that your own biological parents didnt want you!

2 - Altho number one makes sense i cant help but think that its a pointless reason considering its far better they are adopted into a loving family than left in a foster home or bouncing between foster homes.

Its definately a decision that only u and ur partner can make and not one that people should judge someone on. (Not saying anyone is doing that here)

We are both non adopters we wouldnt be able to do it.

Edited by Jezsika
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2007 at 10:45pm
I think adoption is a huge can of worms, one that I have seen from a few different angles.

I have two cousins who were adopted at birth as my uncle and aunt were unable to have children. Their son was born on the kitchen table at home to a teenage mother who's own mother had hidden her away to disguise the pregnancy. When he was two, my uncle and aunty found out that he was severely mentally and physically disabled and legally blind. They were offered the opportunity to "send him back" so to speak, which they refused. He is now the same age as me, unable to walk or speak and has undergone several surgeries on his back, not to mention the strain that his disabilities have put on his parents and his (adopted) sister. Yet they would never for a minute be without him, and are grateful for the opportunity to have had children at all.

A friend I went to school with adopted her son out at birth in 1998. He went to a great family down the line, was enrolled in kohanga and progressing well when at 18 mths old she went to court to have the adoption overturned. For reasons known only to the Gisborne Family Court they returned him to her custody. He is now 8 1/2, has been taken into CYFS care twice, and is developmentally and socially delayed. I once visited them to find him sleeping in a urine soaked bed, to which she replied she was "teaching him not to wet the bed". Her partner asked her once why she hits him and she said "because I can". My heart breaks for the family that had him as a baby and for all the promise he had.

My Dad's business partner was on the opposite side of the coin. He and his wife have been nable to have children and adopted a little girl. Her biological mother took her back when she was 12 weeks old. This was years ago, he is now, like my Dad, in his 50's and they are childless. They are the most lovely couple you could imagine and have so much to offer a child yet were so emotionally devastated by the failed adoption that they decided not to try again.

I don't know whether I could ever adopt, thankfully I have been blessed with 3 beautiful children and it is not something I have had to consider. But I guess all I can say is that sometimes all is not right with the world. Sometimes nice people get dealt the suckiest hand, and sometimes precious kids are in the crossfire. And in some situations adoption is the best option for all involved - the kids get to have a (hopefully - not saying that all adoptive families are neccessarily Mary Poppins) stable home, and the adoptive parents get the chance to experience parenthood.

*End rant.*
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nikkitheknitter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2007 at 10:50pm
Eek... shivers up spine reading your post Emma.

And Jess - just wanted to say that I think it is really special that your Dad wanted you to be his daughter so much that he adopted you (It's the eternal optimist in me!)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2007 at 9:25am
To be utterly and completely honest, I was a bit upset when I first read this thread that adoption was being likened to deception on the part of the parents who 'receive' the baby - I think it is far from that, although I acknowledge there are cases where the parents hide it from the child and this in turn causes hurt etc.

My parents were completely open with me, and when I was old enough to better get my head around the concept (5-6yo I think) they slowly introduced information about what it meant to be adopted, and I always knew I could talk to them about it and ask all the questions I wanted.

When I was old enough again in a legal sense, I was also allowed to begin the search for my biological parents (moreso the mother than the father), and while it was nerve wracking - finding her and getting to know her, it was ultimately proved that the right thing had been done in giving me up to a family that could not have babies naturally, and who cared for me a great deal.

If it were biologically impossible for DH and I to have another child I would consider adoption, I am very aware of what a difficult journey it could be, but would treat the child no different to Erin (my biological daughter).

I am very pro adoption, but as I said before I am very aware of what is involved in it both bureaucratically and emotionally, and there needs to be a great deal of support from friends and family - this is applicable to both sides of the coin, whether it be a couple adopting a child, or a mother giving one up.   

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote susieq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2007 at 11:13am
Hi I can speak of the good side of adoption
Some people I used to babysit for had a foster son who is at 14 severely disabled but they still see him and his new foster Mum regularly,
They then adopted two sister from Russia who are doing wonderfully here in New Zealand.
Another friend has a son adopted from Russia, he is fine mentally but has curverture of the spine and has to have operations to remedy this.
And yet another positive at Caitlyns music and movement where I used to take her while Kelly worked there was a Mum who had one daughter of her own, then adopted a set of triplets from the Phillapines one of whom has a hearing problem and they are now going through the adoption process to adopt two more children.
The triplets will probably end up in the same class as Caitlyn when she starts school later this year.

Edited by susieq
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SMoody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 February 2007 at 10:23pm
We had 2 mc's. We also found out that I had PCOS and might not fall pregnant that easy. And if we do we might have a really high risk of an mc. For a long time I couldnt fall pregnant.

We did look into adoption. Due to history in SA our family wouldnt accept a black baby in SA. So we had to look into China and Russia. Was really expensive. Plus one of us had to be 30. We were willing to do that and wait.

We even looked at surragocy where the child will be ours. But due to laws the incubator person can turn around and keep your child. It is not even genetically from her or anything.

I just couldnt deal with the fact of having that hope and that get taken away from you.

Having said that I would consider adoption and it is a likely possibility in the future if we cant concieve again.

I will however be really honest with the child and tell them although McKayla was born through my tummy that they are so special as they got born through my heart. I will never ever keep it a secret from them as that is their story of their life and their legacy.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nikkitheknitter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 February 2007 at 10:29pm
My daughter's God Mother (though the God part isn't official yet) can't have children due to her reproductive system not developing past the age of three. I had a big talk with her the other night about it and it dawned on me that I would be more than happy to be a surrogate rental womb for her. I don't know if I could do it for a stranger, but would be more than happy to incubate her baby and I'm pretty sure I could deal with the handing over thing, knowing that it was HER baby.

So yeah... I hope she can get something sorted herself (apparently you can have uterus transplants?!?) but otherwise she'll be looking into other options and I'll be there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote busymum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 February 2007 at 11:04pm
Wow Nikki that would be very generous of you! (I don't mean that in a nasty way.)

And Jax I totally agree about the extended family needing to be supportive. After we married, my PILs fostered two children "indefinately" and it was definitely not the right children for their family as FIL was working long hours, MIL was fairly busy, and one of the kids was a 3-4yo boy with ADHD. DH and his brothers knew right away that it wasn't able to work indefinitely but by then it really was too late to do anything except ride it out. In the end the kids ended up in someone else's care 18 months later.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote susieq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 February 2007 at 7:04pm
Hi Shirena,
There is an outfit over here that deals with adoptions of childern from Russia, etc but cant remember what it is called. Will let you know
Was nice meeting you this morning and I am sure if Playcentre doesnt work out Sharon with Jodie and Jenna will take you along to the Church playgroup of you ask her.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote susieq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 February 2007 at 7:07pm
Just remebered The name of the adoption agency for adopting children from overseas countries is called Icanz
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SMoody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 February 2007 at 7:38pm
Sharon already offer. She said I can just tag along.

I am pretty sure we wont have trouble concieving next time around but it definately stays an option for us.

Thanks for the info. I will definately bookmark it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bombshell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 February 2007 at 11:24am
First Emma - the adoption overturned would have been a whangai adoption and not a legal one - or they had custody / guardianship only. An adoption doesnt get overturned like that. Trust me!

Also in NZ if anyone is considering adoption they need to be approved by CYFS - adoption unit - totally different to CYFS in the usual sense we hear about. THEN you can be approved to adopt via agencies overseas. DO not get heart set on a baby via an agency without going via CYFS and getting approval...i have seen the heartbreak where legal overseas adoptions are not approved by NZ when the agencies oveseas are not accredited. I know of one stuck in a country overseas in limbo with a bubs adopted when they ignored CYFS route and now cannot bring child home - and probably never will....very sad

We have a serius lack of bubs up for adoption in NZ - young mums are keeping their babies, whangai adoptions are popular - altho IMHO I dont know why as in Emmas example they can be overturned as they are not legal adoptions. Also a lot of people are now doing permanent placement long term / forstering...after being on adoption waiting lists etc this is often an easier option...it basically places a child with you (for life normally) and natural parents may see child 1 - 6 times a year and have no priority ....usually involves kids at high risk uplifted by cyfs. Gives the caregives custody and guardianship...and courts favour the caregivers big time....which is usually best for all concerned...but is not an adoption.

I do deal with adoptions...and it can be heartbreaking and rewarding! I also have a cousin in USA who was adopted from India as a baby, and my aunt is still involved with bringing kids over from there. A good friends sister in her 40's and her hubby adopted two children from Romania and one from Russia before the crackdown...

there are options but my best advice is get approved by CYFS or a permanent placement agency early on - and get on a waiting list...dont leave it as a last option...you may be too old if you do. Also I have three people i have dealt with who adopted and at adoption or soon after became pregnant themselves...and completed their families as a result...seems to relax once you have a child and for some whatever unexplained infertility was sitting there is overcome by welcoming and loving a child and they get pregnant...no promises but it does happen....

sorry for long post....

Edited by Bombshell
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Maya View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 February 2007 at 2:57pm
The 18 mth old she got back due to some tricky legal work - she was at Bethany when she had him and constructed an argument based on the pretense that she had been forced into giving him up against her will by social workers at Bethany. Complicated scenario coz she was a ward of the DG at the time and the family she was living with told her they wouldn't take her and the baby so if she didnt give the baby up she would have nowhere to live. Absolute cr*p if you ask me, but sure set a few legal precedents I bet.

ETA: - possibly wasn't a legal adoption but rather a custody/guardianship thing, not sure, but I do know that CYFS were very interested in keeping things sweet and paid for her airfares from Ak to Gisborne for court hearings, and for the boy to come and have visitation with her for bonding etc.

My Dad's business partner I don't know all the details of, only that they had this girl and she got taken back at 12 weeks. Maybe the paperwork hadn't been finalised, or maybe it was a private arrangement, I really have no idea, I just remember feeling really, really sad for them coz they were there when she was born and everything.

Edited by Maya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jay_R Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2007 at 10:51am
My mother is a superviser at Adoption Services - I could point people in that direction if anyone needs it.
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