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mum2paris View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 August 2007 at 10:17pm
Ok, so in a round about way it's kinda about death and dying.. argh i dunno, but i need some advice.

Here's the deal.

A year ago, our cat we had from 3 years before i had paris, got hurt and we couldn't afford the operation it would take to fix him back up so had to put him down. Paris was so upset at the time, even though really she had stopped playing with him,they used to be bestest buddies when she was a bubba and he followed her around the house when she wasn't pulling his tail, but she did get to say goodbye to him before we left him to be put down, and helped us bury him in the backyard later on once mike had gone back and picked him up, and she sung him a song ( i think it was twinkle twinkle) and put some flowers on the top etc. She seemed to get over it fairly quickly though.

5 months ago after Paris constantly being on at me about wanting another brother or sister, i get preggers, of course we tell her, why would we not, i had never had anything go wrong with a pregnancy, she even came to our first scan, .. where we were told baby had no heartbeat, again, up comes discussion about death and dying, only this time she was absolutely devastated, whether this was because she also probably had to deal with seeing me dealing with it i am not sure. We have not yet done anything special for this, I think i plan to in November when it would have been due, but mayvbe this has had an effect on her as there hasn't been the closure for her like last time...

anyway, since then she has not been her sparky self, she is back to wetting pants alot.. some days she will have dry days but others she will wet 3 times, sometimes she even doesn't change them at daycare, she will get home and we go to get her changed for bed or whatever to find wet underpants, not fully wet outer pants obviously otherwise we'd pick it up a heck of alot sooner. We try not to make a big thing of it, just stress to her she needs to change them if she wets so she doesn't get sore or smell yucky, and to try a bit harder to get there instead of trying to finish her game etc..

She gets upset so easy, at first i thought maybe it was an excuse, but alot of the time it will be completely out of the blue she'll start crying and when asked what's wrong, it is always "I miss joey" our cat, or "i miss baby, when can you have a baby". Generally she tends to have sore tummies an awful lot..which i have read somewhere can be a child's way of manifesting depressed feelings etc.

anyways.. I am trying to help her deal with this as i do worry she has a bit of unresolved grief issues etc,

Dilemma time....

Today i came home to find that one of our bunnies had died... I have no idea why, we only got them last year and they were newbies when we got em. They look alike so we don't know if it was Ayja's smudge or Paris's Sarah that passed. They are out in the backyard in their cage around the back of the house so the girls haven't really been out to see them lately with the icky weather, mike feeds em and cleans em and gives em a pat but mostly at the mo it's too cold to do much.

Because it was just me and mike, we hadn't picked up the girls from daycare yet.. We decided between ourselves that Paris could not cope with any more death in such a short amount of time. We have not told her. We have gotten rid of the dead bunny. I do feel bad, but also want to protect her from any more pain, and probably protect ousrselves from dealing with the pain of her pain.. if you know what i mean

We don't know what to do now... we are planning to tell her it got out and ran away, we are just waiting to figure out what we are doing with the other bunny. I do not want it to be lonely, My older sister has rabbits and has said she will gladly take the other away to her place to look after it, as really we can't spend the time on it that it deserves. We aren't sure how Paris will take this.

Do we get my sister to pick up bunny without Paris knowing and then tell her that they both ran away, or, do we talk to her about not wanting bunny to be lonely and let her say bye bye to the bunny which we will probably say is her one, so that when we go to my older sister's house she can still see that bunny is happy and she can go and see it when she likes.

I am really unsure what the heck to say to her. This is not what i signed up for when i became a parent.

Janine and her 2 cool chicks, Paris & Ayja

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busymum View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote busymum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 August 2007 at 10:34pm
Hi Janine, only a quick read-through before I go to bed (I really must!) but I don't think you should say the bunny ran away because Paris may take that personally. Sometimes it's ok that we don't know all the answers, it's ok to say the bunny died but we don't know why. I know 3-4 yo's ask lots of why's but they don't need to know all the answers

I think I'd approach it something like this: the bunny got very sick and died very quickly the other day, Dad (?) has put it in the garden like the cat (??), and now 'our' other bunny hasn't got a bunny-friend. Perhaps you could help her come to the conclusion that it needs to have bunny friends? And hyphenate it's name so that it's a family thing, not Paris or Ayja's bunny who died, but one of the family bunnies has died and there is only one 'of ours' left: Sarah-Smudge, perhaps? (Although that's rather a mouthful!)

Let her cry and have a cuddle and then see if she can come up with a creative idea to 'help us all feel a bit better'. Perhaps you guys could all make and eat popcorn together, or plant some flowers, or have ice-cream on your cereal for breakfast?

What about getting a replacement bunny? It seems like a lot of losses in a short amount of time, poor girl. (Unfortunately it's part of life that the other bunny will die someday as well and she will probably grieve it then, regardless of where it is living.) But that way there won't be a lonely bunny but also not as much of a loss (because in a way there will be a double loss). Otherwise if you are definitely going to give that bunny away, perhaps give her a week to process that before doing it?

So much for a short reply....
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mum2paris View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mum2paris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 August 2007 at 10:43pm
mmm i do feel bad about lying to her, but i do not, AT ALL, think that she can live with the idea of another thing dying, seriously, so we are planning to tell her that the one that died.. ran away as that way there is no blame, just some silly thing that happened, and for her i know that she would accept that bunny would have gotten out and gone off to explore and maybe found another nice home to live at..

I just can't decide whether to tell her the other one has run away as well at the same time when we do tell her(as mentioned.. we haven't told her about the dead one and she's none the wiser cos she can't see their cage from inside the house to notice there's only 1 in there) or whether we let her say goodbye to the other bunny when it goes to my sister's house.

Mike is now undecided as to whether he wants to get rid of the other one, but really with all the other stuff and business in our lives, we can't look after her as well as we should and as well as such a lovely bunny deserves, and a replacement is out of the question, i know my big sister absolutely pampers her bunnies and that ours would be well looked after.

I know i can't protect Paris from death for the rest of her life but i don't feel at this time considering all that has gone on, that she needs to deal with something else like this again so soon,

I'm also quite careful about not using the "got sick and died" thing because i am worried she may get a few interesting fears about getting sick and thinking that she too will die which can be common at this age for them to think, i was silly enough to use that when we had our first scan, telling her that baby was sick and that if baby was still sick when we went back for our second scan then they would have to take baby out so it wouldn't make me sick, i am not sure that was the best way to have put it at the time, so have learnt not to use that one anymore.

Edited by mum2paris
Janine and her 2 cool chicks, Paris & Ayja

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Bizzy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bizzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 August 2007 at 10:55pm
i think if you stick to the truth as much as possible it is probably best...but i agree telling her it ran away sounds better and taking the other to your sisters and letting her visit seems the best option to me ... i think too if you explain to her it will be happier and looked after better at your sisters it will make it easier for her.

Also the wetting pants, sore tummies and being sad may not necessarily be related to the babys death...it may have contributed tho.   When you think about it the weather affects grown ups and you get lots of us suffering from SAD (that winter depression thing) so it may be getting her down too.

You could try taking her out on a date together for fluffies or something and seeing how she responds when you bring up the baby if you felt up to it. she may just need to have a talk about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mamanee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 August 2007 at 11:41pm
Ok, so this is probably terrible advice and don't take any notice of it, but what about a replacement bunny that looks just like the one that died?

Ok, that was a terrible idea I know.

Sorry.

I hope Paris feels better soon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nuttymama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2007 at 6:30am
Neeandsam I agree, we had a similar issue with Micheal a long time ago he is a very, very sensitive boy and we lost several pets, his bird died and then me going for mother of the year overfed his fish and killed three of them. He was devastated and cried every night for weeks. A few months later his most favourite fish died and we replaced it without his knowing!!! .

I can really understand you wanting to protect her. And I will admit I am not opposed to the odd white lie protect the kids.

On the other hand when our beautiful boy tiger the cat was run over we told the kids we thought he had gone for a walk and gotten lost they were fine with that as we said some nice people had probably taken him in and were looking after him so that worked as well.

You know best how much she is hurting but personally after so much grief in such a short time I would be getting creative just like you want to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bumble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2007 at 8:31am
I agree with nuttymumma, get creative. She seems like such a sensitive wee soul and another death to deal with, well that is just too much for her. I like you suggestion of telling her it ran away. Perhaps dont send the other one to your sisters immediately as this may be detrimental. Perhaps after a couple of weeks of gently suggesting that the bunny needs to go to your sisters that you do it. And the idea of it needing a Bunny Friend is good.

On the sore tummy and wetting pants front, maybe she needs to talk to someone to get her grief out and worked through.....

Both of you are such caring parents who obviously love your girls to bits.

Your story made me cry
formerly known as "Bee"

Ethan ~ March 2003 Big 6 year old school boy!
Micah ~ Aug 2008 ~ Smiley pants who loves telephones!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote busymum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2007 at 12:28pm
I'm just a bit concerned that Paris may beat herself up for 'not loving the bunny enough' so that it 'ran away'. What a tricky situation! And if the other one went to your sisters without her knowing, would she recognise it? I just wouldn't want her to find you guys out and then not trust you with anything else that came up.

When your cat died did you leave it at that or give an impression of after-life? The bunny might have 'wanted' to join Joey? I dunno if that's a great idea either.

I agree with your 'get sick and died' comment, I was wondering that too.
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Maya View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2007 at 1:50pm
Ugh Janine, thats a tricky one for you We've been lucky that Maya hasn't really had to understand death, she was too young to understand when I lost the baby, and we don't have pets coz *I* don't cope with them dying (yes I am a big sook ).
She does have a concept of death tho, we believe in heaven, so I've taught her that when people die they go to heaven, and every night when she goes to bed she says prayers for Uncle Jim, Aunty Marion, baby Kalen and Uncle Lightie (my sisters cat lol) up in heaven. She doesn't question it, altho she knows we can't get to heaven coz I've told her if she loses Fussy then Fussy will go to heaven and we won't see her anymore.
Ok, so I'm not much help. If it was me, I'd tell Paris the bunny ran away, and then keep the other one for a little while then do the "bunny is lonely so how would you feel about bunny going to Aunty's house?" That way if she violently objects you can consider buying a new bunny to keep the other one company, but if she agrees, it will give her a sense of having made the decision herself which is a good thing.
Good luck!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mum2paris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2007 at 5:29pm
Well, it's done.

We sat her down and told her that well, you know how it was really windy and rainy last night .. the catch on the cage blew open and bunny jumped out and ran away,

she asked which one it was and we said we didn't know because we can never tell them apart.

we also discussed the other one going to live with aunty, but that';s not gonna happen for a few weeks as my nephew is going to have an operation next week for partial hershbungs disease so will be a couple of weeks until they are home.

she took it very well.
Janine and her 2 cool chicks, Paris & Ayja

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote busymum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2007 at 6:42pm
Well done, I'm glad she'll have a bit of time to process before the other one leaves as well.

Emma - I don't have pets because with three preschoolers I'm scared I'd forget to feed them Consequently if we ever get pets they will be big/mobile/loud enough to tell me when they are hungry (think puppy vs goldfish) LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2007 at 8:24pm
We had fish. They died. Even that upset me. So no more fish.
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EDITED - as assistance clearly wasnt wanted from me here!

Edited by Bombshell
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mum2paris View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mum2paris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2007 at 11:14pm
I have thought about grief counselling for her to some point however it is becomming less apparent as time goes on, if there was ever any reason for me to be getting seriously worried about her ability to cope, or our ability as parents to help her through these things in a normal parental role, I would be there in a shot, however at the moment i feel that these types of things are the sorts of things that mums and dads do have to help their children through at some times..

I am in no way, trying to play amateur psych. am not too particularly happy with that comment really however it was meant whether helpful or other but just do want to say that yes, we have considered counselling for her, if it comes to that there would be no hesitation, we love our girl and don't want her to be sad but acknowledge that this year has had more than it's fair share of really s...ty stuff that has happened to us and unfortunately we haven't been able to protect her from that.

I dunno what it was about that, and sorry if i took thing sin the wrong way, but that really upset me for some reason.. prob tiredness and PMS all in one.

Edited by mum2paris
Janine and her 2 cool chicks, Paris & Ayja

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2007 at 7:59am
Janine, sounds like Paris is having a rough time. I guess everyone deals with things their own way, you know your little girl best and I think you did the best thing. I hope she is ok.
Anna

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EDITED - Ditto!

Edited by Bombshell
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bizzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2007 at 8:27pm
just a side note BS but i thought you were into law...? you sound in your post to have a lot to do with children

and i must say janine it didnt sound like you were trying to play amateur psych with her to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fattartsrock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2007 at 9:29pm
I think, and shoot me if I am wrong, BS is in family law, so no doubt sees alot of sad kids.

Janine, bug hugs, girl. You are doing a great job, there are many parenets out there who wouldn't think about why theor child is acting like they do, and just let it go on and hope they grow out of it. You guys have had a sucky year, hope you win lotto or soemthing to balance out the karma. xx
The Honest Un PC Parent of 2, usually stuck in the naughty corner! :P
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote busymum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2007 at 9:33pm
Yep Annie, she is (BS).
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