National or Labour?
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Topic: National or Labour?
Posted By: kebakat
Subject: National or Labour?
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 2:58pm
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I'm curious.. if you don't mind sharing..
Who do you like better.. National or Labour?? I personally think Helen Clark is a snob with a big stick up her bum, I like John Key better. But I think I like Labour better in general. But Michael Cullen is a right ass as well. |
Replies:
Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 3:00pm
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National for me...for sooo many reasons..but a friend of mine pointed out that National will get rid of WFF....surey not? but I;d rather that than Labour:) sorry it's one of THOSE topics:) though they have done some good things! ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Posted By: Bel
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 3:06pm
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hmm what about other parties?? Not just National and Labour to vote for... Though I understand that they will be the power holders... I haven't decided yet I dont think. I used to think National, but think that John Key is not the right guy... I don't really like Helen either tho... Hmm will keep an eye on this thread and see what others have to say... ------------- Mum to two beautiful kids 
Luke (09.11.2007) Amy (01.04.2009) |
Posted By: Maya
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 3:06pm
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Neither, but in the absence of a good alternative (coz no matter what Willie thinks the Greens will never be the majority party *rolls eyes*) I'd have to say it's time for a change, and I quite like John Key.
LOL at the image of Helen Clark with a stick up her bum 
Funnily enough Willie and I had this same discussion/argument at 4am, I was far more interested in sleep but he was wide awake and all political, which considering he never exercises his right to vote is laughable. ------------- Maya Grace (28/02/03)
 (02/01/06)
The Gremlins:Sienna Marie & Mercedes Kailah (14/10/06)
Lil miss:Chiara Louise Chloe (09/07/08)
Her ladyship:Rosalia Sophie Anais (18/06/12)
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Posted By: kebakat
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 3:13pm
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I realise there are other parties involved, but one of those parties will have the major power.
I use to like the Greens, now I think they are being a bit stupid
If Michael Cullen and Helen Clark would bugga off. I'd be very happy with Labour, just because I have liked some of their stuff, putting money into health, education, WFF and things like that whereas National couldn't give a rats ass about those areas |
Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 3:19pm
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There both as bad as each other I don't want either of them to win. ------------- 
 
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Posted By: Bobbie
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 3:21pm
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I agree with CT - but John Key especially gets my back up policies notwithstanding. He reminds me of some arrogant b*strd I went to school with -------------  
 
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Posted By: MrsMojo
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 3:31pm
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I don't like John Key either. Can't tell you why, I just don't.
I usually vote a minority party to throw a spanner in the works but it's pretty close this year so I guess I'll have to choose between one of the biggies. I'm not keen on National's take from the poor and give to the rich policies either and I need WFF for another few years so I'll probably vote labour to keep that around. -------------  
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Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 3:34pm
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do you think they will et rid of it.. i think maybe they will get a lot of votes just because people cant afford to lose it..something corrupt about that(on the govt's behalf not the people) ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Posted By: mummy_becks
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 3:34pm
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Labour ------------- I was a puree feeder, forward facing, cot sleeping, pram pushing kind of Mum... and my kids survived! |
Posted By: nikkitheknitter
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 3:54pm
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I don't particularly like any of the politicians but I agree more with Labour's political philosophy.
I haven't found an issue where I would take National's stance yet. Apart from that, I could vote for a smaller party but I know I would feel uncomfortable if National won more seats than Labour. |
Posted By: kebakat
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 4:00pm
| I do think that National would either scrap or reduce WFF severley to deliver their tax cuts, how they are trying to beat labours tax cuts |
Posted By: jack_&_charli
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 4:03pm
labour.....mostly because we simply could not live without WFF these days! can you imagine the chaos that would cause ------------- http://www.alternatickers.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Maya
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 4:04pm
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I can't see them taking WFF away, it's existed in one form or another since long before it's current incarnation, before there was WFF there was Family Support for low income families, the WFF just extended the number of people who were eligible.
National are promising other benefits for low/middle income earners for example tax cuts to put $50 more per week in the pockets of the average working family. At the risk of sounding completely anti-welfare, I've always voted ACT in the past, I like their hard line stance on social issues, but I haven't heard much out of them recently that inspires me. ------------- Maya Grace (28/02/03)
(02/01/06)
The Gremlins:Sienna Marie & Mercedes Kailah (14/10/06)
Lil miss:Chiara Louise Chloe (09/07/08)
Her ladyship:Rosalia Sophie Anais (18/06/12)
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Posted By: peachy
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 4:07pm
Me too Emma! I am leaning more towards John Key this time TBH. ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Maya wrote:Posted By: caitlynsmygirl
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 4:09pm
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hmmm i dont know,
Yes i do! vote for me ! i'll be primeminister instead
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Posted By: Maya
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 4:15pm
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Great idea! Vote for The Kelly! ------------- Maya Grace (28/02/03)
(02/01/06)
The Gremlins:Sienna Marie & Mercedes Kailah (14/10/06)
Lil miss:Chiara Louise Chloe (09/07/08)
Her ladyship:Rosalia Sophie Anais (18/06/12)
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Posted By: minik8e
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 4:42pm
| We have just been talking about this here at work....basically it's time for a change in who runs the government, but all of us still prefer Helen over John Keys, I just think he is focussing on the wrong things. The whole tax cut thing in the budget doesn't make a huge amount of difference to me personally - maybe $10 a week in the hand if I'm lucky - and of course, with no children, WFF doesn't apply just yet (maybe next year!!) so there's not a whole lot of apples that are enticing me either way at the moment. Gutted about the student allowance thresholds going up - last year I was a whole $20 over the threshold based on Mum and Dad's income. |
Posted By: Henna79
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 5:14pm
| National, without a doubt! |
Posted By: BuzzyBee
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 5:22pm
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Labour. ------------- Single Mum to a darling wee boy of 3 years :) |
Posted By: caraMel
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 5:28pm
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Labour here too, although I do agree it's time for Aunty Helen to let someone else in the party take charge. ------------- Mel, Mummy to E: 6, B: 4 and: 
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Posted By: linda
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 5:31pm
| National |
Posted By: Bubbaloo
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 7:12pm
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Majority of the tome I lean towards labour the other National haven't really made up mind but would be more inclined to vote Labour if Helen stepped down. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">  Was danni-chick Mum to James My Angel 28/07/08 |
Posted By: Jay_R
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 7:57pm
| Labour. Without a doubt. |
Posted By: lizzle
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 8:05pm
| I'm labour too, but am wondering if I am because my parents were/are and I always have been - more of habit than anything. |
Posted By: pesky
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 8:05pm
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Interesting re people wanting Helen to step down - haven't heard anyone else mention that idea until now.
I think Labour have done a good job and will vote for them. IMO John Key comes across smug. I'm not inspired by the rest of the party, nor their philosophy. Basically I don't trust national nor their alliances. ------------- http://www.bump-and-beyond.com/"> 
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Posted By: emz
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 8:15pm
How can anyone decide on National when they've danced around every single question regarding anything specific during the lead of Don Brash and now John Key?  I find him smug too, and I wouldn't want him representing me.
Not that I like Helen that much, she ordered the defence force to take danger pay from hubby while in Timor in 01/02 ($50 a day) and then gave it as a donation on behalf of 'the NZ people' to the Timorese to rebuild schools etc, then they went and burnt them all down in 2006 (they seriously are stupid people - no offence to anyone that knows Timorese, but my god, burning down your own infrastructure to prove a point? )
So, to answer the question anyway, I'm a labour person. 1) You get straight answers from them 2) They look after the average NZ'er. National has traditionally been the white middle class males voting party, although I know that's changing. 3) I owe them for wiping the interest off my student loan 
4) They've promised to look after the defence force, whereas National have made fleeting statements about where they'd send them/what they'd do which worries me about DH. So there you have it! We have election parties where we dress up (had Rodney Hyde masks last time as he was a key player in assigning seats), get drunk and yell at the opposing supporters when the party we're supporting wins seats. Yes I'm a geek. And proud of it 
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Posted By: mummy_becks
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 8:19pm
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Thanks for that Emz, I didn't think about the defence force - it has always been SL and WFF for me, but we are a Labour family going way back to Sonja Davies (anyone know that name?? - she was my Great Aunty), so hey will alwas have my vote, and I like the new MP we have for Labour here in Palmy. ------------- I was a puree feeder, forward facing, cot sleeping, pram pushing kind of Mum... and my kids survived! |
Posted By: Kels
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 8:22pm
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Labour without a doubt ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
Busy mum to Miss 15yrs, Miss 10yrs and Master 4yrs |
Posted By: nikkitheknitter
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 8:50pm
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Hey, wondering... why do people dislike Helen?
I think she is an incredibly intelligent woman and think she has done a great job leading the party and country for the last gazillion years. I read a bit of her history and I think she's impressive in that respect too. |
Posted By: nikkitheknitter
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 8:51pm
| P.S. I don't think there is anyone that is more suitable to replace her either. |
Posted By: Maya
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 8:59pm
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I have no doubt that she's intelligent, I'd go so far as to say manipulative even, but I guess that's a good thing in a politician, nature of the beast and all.
I just think if she gets in again we run the risk of appearing more like a dictatorship than a democracy with having the same leader for so long. ------------- Maya Grace (28/02/03)
(02/01/06)
The Gremlins:Sienna Marie & Mercedes Kailah (14/10/06)
Lil miss:Chiara Louise Chloe (09/07/08)
Her ladyship:Rosalia Sophie Anais (18/06/12)
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Posted By: Maya
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 9:00pm
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Oh and she is sooo damn unattractive! ------------- Maya Grace (28/02/03)
(02/01/06)
The Gremlins:Sienna Marie & Mercedes Kailah (14/10/06)
Lil miss:Chiara Louise Chloe (09/07/08)
Her ladyship:Rosalia Sophie Anais (18/06/12)
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Posted By: BuzzyBee
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 9:07pm
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hehe Emma, I met her IRL ...bumped into her at Botany a couple years back when she was out in the public mixing and mingling ...her teeth are so damn crooked compared to the doctored billboards ------------- Single Mum to a darling wee boy of 3 years :) |
Posted By: MrsMojo
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 9:07pm
Didn't the Japanese (?) press comment that she looks like a model? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. -------------
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Posted By: BuzzyBee
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 9:12pm
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Yeah I wouldn't go so far as unattractive ..but they definitely airbrush a lot of her photos. Her skin looked nice and smooth IRL - maybe THAT is where the Japanese were referring to her as being model like ------------- Single Mum to a darling wee boy of 3 years :) |
Posted By: maysie
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 9:17pm
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mummy_becks, I have the Sonja Davies book! It's a very good read. And I've also read Helen Clarks biography and I really liked her from that. I remember at a uni lecture (a Political Policy paper in my 2nd year) we had Helen Clark and Jenny Shipley talk to us and they were both incredible to listen to. I've always been National but last election voted Labour because i felt Helen Clark was the right person to be our PM. I don't agree with a lot of the things they've been doing lately though and find it really frustrating (for us personally) that we pay so much tax yet get not a lot in return. We have private health ins, super, pay heaps for the doctor (which has just recently changed for me but not DH) etc. I realise that technically we can afford to pay for all these things but why shouldnt we be able to live a decent lifestyle when we've worked really hard for it? - and Im def not saying that those who earn less dont work hard. Just that it would be nice to know that maybe we didnt have to have health ins because our govt provided a solid health system or that our taxes werent paying for certain people to sit at home because they cant be bothered working. I believe in a hand up - not a hand out, and this was what welfare was originally for.
So, back to the topic...I will be giving my vote back to National  ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Jennz
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 9:19pm
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I always vote green- just because I like that with MMP minority parties can get a few seats and be in there to be the majority government 'conscience' so to speak. I'm not a huge fan of Winston either but I like that he is in there to call the government up when they screw up- he's a nutter but I think we need someone in there like that (not ruling though!).
I think its insane that people seem to only look short term- our government always goes through a cycle. National comes in- sells all our state owned assests, privatises EVERYTHING, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer then eventually we learn a lesson and vote Labour back in. They take 2-3 terms cleaning up the mess then we start complaining about them (over minor things in comparison) and vote National back- who then go and screw it all back up again. So to answer the question- I think Labour is the lesser of the 2 evils. I don't agree with some of their policies, I think Helens getting too big for her boots, but overall I think the country is far better off with them in power than with National. National are republicans, Labour are democrats basically- look at America! ------------- Jen, Charlotte 7 & Kate 3 
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Posted By: MrsMojo
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 9:27pm
I love Winston for exactly that reason, would never vote for him though. -------------
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Posted By: maysie
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 9:27pm
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YOu do have a very good point there Jen ------------- http://lilypie.com">
http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: nikkitheknitter
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 9:33pm
Emma! Disagree with this on quite a few levels
Most important of which are: 1. We vote for a party, not a president 2. I highly doubt Labour could govern alone so there will be a multi-party coalition It's just about the furtherest thing away from a dictatorship! *end rant* Love ya.
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Posted By: mummy_becks
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 10:29pm
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I love Winston he add spice to Parliment ------------- I was a puree feeder, forward facing, cot sleeping, pram pushing kind of Mum... and my kids survived! |
Posted By: kiwigal
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 10:54pm
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WHAT can't she afford to go the dentist on her $200,000 salary |
Posted By: kiwigal
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 10:58pm
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Husband and I were talking about this tonight yeah it is good about the tax cut as a lot of people but in the long run it won't last long as prices of food, power, etc will still go up. The other side to this is that the interest rate will stay up longer and will hurt a lot of people in the long run. I don't like HC whatsoever and if National gets in I don't know what he will do to this country it is going to be interesting this time around. |
Posted By: pesky
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 11:03pm
Yeah I agree. I tried to explain my feelings about National but had to delete it as couldn't make it sound objective or succinct. ------------- http://www.bump-and-beyond.com/">
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Posted By: Jennz
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 2:25am
Go for it pesky- I'm about as objective as a NZ herald journalist  ------------- Jen, Charlotte 7 & Kate 3
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Posted By: kebakat
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 8:01am
I think she is intelligent and all that, but when I watch her on Breakfast (if I happen to catch it) she just pisses me off lol.. part of it is that she shows no sympathy or really any emotion whatsoever and you would think she would. |
Posted By: Henna79
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 8:11am
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I think she is intelligent and all that, but when I watch her on Breakfast (if I happen to catch it) she just pisses me off lol.. part of it is that she shows no sympathy or really any emotion whatsoever and you would think she would.[/QUOTE]
I agree, I am not sure I would ever vote labour but if they really and honestly helped people maybe I would. The budget was just a huge joke! The so called tax cuts aren't cuts at all they are just all in line with inflation so nothing given there. They keep saying they pour money into health and education but still there is something wrong there, and prob always will be One big thing that I feel from labour, esp at the mo, is the lack of care for the people. People are really struggling out there, not just gthe average fam but the so called better off to, and they haven't done anything to help them, maybe just my feeling but hey. and another thing, I am sick of them telling me how I can and can't raise my kids! (not that I have one yet) but there have been a few laws labour have passed that the country gave them a clear answer of they didn't want it but they just went through anyway.
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Posted By: kebakat
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 8:46am
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DH said something about the tax cuts this morning.. he said you have 3 choices for tax cuts..
1. Give everyone the same amount of money back in their pockets 2. Bias it so that lower end income earners get more.. higher income get less 3. Bias it so that lower income gets less, high income gets more. We are in the middle.. but both DH and I thought that number 1 or 2 would make more sense. But the amount coming back is pretty pathetic. I think that all the money spent on tax cuts could be put to better use, like dump a whole lot more into WFF and other benefits etc. |
Posted By: peanut butter
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 8:53am
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Helen may be an intelligent woman and she is a pretty strong woman but I dont think she has a clue what reality is all about. She has an academic background and academics do tend to live in their own little protected worlds. I personally dont think she is the right person for the job and would be pleased to see the back of her and labour. Unfortunately National and Key havent come out strong and confident yet. Fingers crossed it will all work out in the end. The country is going downhill fast.
Just my opinion. |
Posted By: kebakat
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 9:13am
The problem with National is that they haven't said a word about what their policies are or even hint at them apart from John Key prattling on how his tax cuts will be bigger than Labours 
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Posted By: Mum2ET
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 9:14am
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national ------------- Mum to Ella (5) and Tom (2) |
Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 9:16am
The first part i totally agree with..i have met her..even lived in her electorate...she's a great person but i still wont' be voting for her:) totally agree about the country though!! ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Posted By: nikkitheknitter
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 9:22am
EXACTLY. And how exactly he is going to pull this off, I have NO idea. National haven't committed to anything yet! Even this morning on the radio John Key couldn't give any details at all about their tax policy. That disturbs me completely that people are talking about voting national when there is absolutely no indication about what their policies are on anything! Atleast with Labour you know what you are getting and personally I don't think things are too bad at all. Yes there are problems with health funding etc but under traditional National policy, there won't be any more funding committed to it. |
Posted By: Jennz
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 9:30am
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I know exactly how hes going to pull it off- they'll sell state owned assets and cut core funding for things like health, welfare and education, just like National always do. They give with one hand and take with the other.
One policy they have released was that they will be removing the threshold that GPs can charge so they will be free to charge whatever they like- already that means we will be paying MORE for healthcare for ourselves and our children under a National government. ------------- Jen, Charlotte 7 & Kate 3
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Posted By: Henna79
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 9:32am
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I think National is just waiting until they have an idea of when election will be. I think its good they aren't already telling us policies as the election is still a few months away and everyone else is already trying to 'buy' votes.
Also wanted to say I agree with those of you who say John Key seems arrogant and smarmy but I so think good on him. He came from nothing and made something of himself so for that alone I think he must be a pretty good guy especially when you look around and see people who came from the same sort of background who are clogging up our jails etc. |
Posted By: newmum
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 9:37am
OK That's because they DON'T HAVE a clear stance on almost anything!!! Just say Labour is crap but don't say what exactly they want to do! grrrr. HATE JOHN KEY!!!!!!
Anyway, ROFL Labour here of the 2 of them but really Greens... ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: newmum
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 9:39am
OK so should have read rest of thread before quoting because that's what you guys have already said, LOL  ------------- http://lilypie.com">
http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: newmum
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 9:39am
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oh and once again Jenna said what I think, she can be my spokesperson ------------- http://lilypie.com">
http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: nikkitheknitter
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 9:46am
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And mine!!
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Posted By: newmum
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 9:47am
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I just can't understand that people with families think National could be better? Man I hate that smarmy bastard...
Sorry am going to put myself in time out now. Getting to het up ------------- http://lilypie.com">
http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Jennz
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 9:47am
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LOL- I often get in first and steal your thunder don't I Ana!
I'll put a disclaimer in my signature: "Oh Baby takes no responsibility for opinions expressed in the above post. All comments are the opinion of myself and Ana and Nikki!"
------------- Jen, Charlotte 7 & Kate 3
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Posted By: newmum
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 9:54am
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LOL, sounds good to me! ------------- http://lilypie.com">
http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: nikkitheknitter
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 10:06am
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Brilliant Jen. haha
Will save me a whole lotta typing! |
Posted By: Roksana
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 10:11am
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Didnt National say that they will continue WFF pymnts this morning??
I am actually really confused about it all. Last time i Voted Labour...actually I always voted labour. However this time I have yet to make up my mind. I hate that all we are going to get is $28 dollars each week....I mean seriously!! We dont qualify for WFF so no benefut for me there. Not that I dont thing WFF is a great thing. National seems sooo much more interesting with the promise of more money but it makes me wonder what we will have to loose out on to get that? and if it will be worth it at the end. Hmmm......Still have time to think about it I guess!!  ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: caraMel
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 10:37am
That's how they appear to me every time the election rolls around. They win people over with their huge promises of tax cuts and benefits, particularly appealing to the wealthy and those in business, but its always too good to be true. Nikki, I quite like Helen. I met her ages ago when she did a seminar for young girls and found her to be really down to earth and gave some really good advice. I just think, like Emma, that she's been PM for quite a while now and it would be good for NZ to have someone new, but with the same philosophy in mind, representing us. ------------- Mel, Mummy to E: 6, B: 4 and:
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Posted By: nikkitheknitter
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 10:45am
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I guess I just don't see anyone who stands out as an alternative?
I don't believe in rolling people over 'just because' ya know? If she'd fecked up in a huge way then maybe.... but I don't think she has. Far too much control for that! |
Posted By: LJsmum
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 10:49am
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used to vote labour but no more....
Labour has stuffed up our society so much. Civil unions, legisation of prosituition and the smacking bill!! Hello. I don't smack and never will but why make it illegal! It's time for a change plus they haven't done anything for our family we only qualifed for WFF for a short time while i ws a SAHM anyway and IRD stuffed up the payments. National seems like they have a clue and will represent me our family as a 2 parent working family. Labours done nothing for us!!! -------------  
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Posted By: nikkitheknitter
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 10:51am
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Ohhhhh Milo.
*faints* |
Posted By: Jay_R
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 11:02am
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I'm with you Nikki....
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Posted By: Suzieq
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 12:45pm
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National !
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Posted By: james
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 1:52pm
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there is no way i will vote for National as they have changed there leader sooo much in the past and they relly are only for the rich or bissines people that us poor people relly have no chance with them in power ------------- <a href="http://lilypie.com"><img src="http://b4.lilypie.com/nLJ5p13.png" alt="Lilypie 4th Birthday Ticker" border="0" /></a> |
Posted By: caraMel
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 1:53pm
Me too, yeouch! ------------- Mel, Mummy to E: 6, B: 4 and:
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Posted By: LJsmum
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 2:43pm
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haha....suppose it was a tad dramatic!
Seriously Helen needs a personal stylist that hair needs help!! One postive thing Labour has done is put money into early childhood and boost the amount of qualifed staff which is a good thing. They value it as education which National does not. Just wish Labour would support working families that struggle with a mortage... poor me  -------------
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Posted By: nikkitheknitter
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 2:46pm
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Sooo, question:
would you prefer tax cuts (potentially at the expense of public services) or a lower interest rate? This isn't a party question, but more of a 'how could we help the middle/upper class?' type question |
Posted By: newmum
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 2:50pm
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Lower interest rates probably.... ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: LJsmum
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 2:52pm
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lower interest rate so we can pay off the mortage quicker and move out of Auckland!!
Tax cuts... what labours bringing in is o.k better that nothing. Would like them to take the tax off petrol though. It's crazy!! -------------
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Posted By: star24
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 2:54pm
| No way i would vote for Helen, shes done barely anything for our ecomony.. minimum wage 11 dollars is it?! thats a shocker for such a developed nation like ourselves.. plus theres the extremely low penalties for child abusers.. im not a big national fan, but after 8 years of clark in power i wouldn't mind national just to give them the chance to prove a new "New Zealand". At least that way i could judge both major parties fairly. The Labour party of the 80's is not the same as the one today... |
Posted By: nikkitheknitter
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 3:06pm
I heard on the radio last night (or maybe this morning?) that under Labour the minimum wage has risen from $7 to $12 - I hardly think that is nothing. In the last National government they raised it 60 cents! P.S. Lemme just go check that P.P.S. Can confirm Labour has raised minimum wage but can't confirm pre-1994 rates. Argh. |
Posted By: nikkitheknitter
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 3:08pm
| I'm sorry for appearing so pro-Labour. In actual fact I'm not usually this much of a defender. But it seems all the claims that people (and the media) are making have absolutely nothing to back them up! |
Posted By: Maya
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 3:22pm
I knew I hadn't expressed that very well, was thinking about it afterwards! I guess what I was trying to say was that yes, we vote for the party, but THEY vote for the leader so when I said dictatorship I guess I meant within the Labour party itself. The fact that there has been no change of leadership in so long (and I don't even know how long lol, since before my political education!) to me makes the party seem stagnant, almost like some of these military dictatorships overseas where everyone is too scared to contest the status quo. Within the party of course, coz for those of us who aren't in the Labour party, if we don't like her, we just won't vote Labour. Sorry, rambling! I *know* what I mean, I'm just having trouble articulating it. ------------- Maya Grace (28/02/03)
(02/01/06)
The Gremlins:Sienna Marie & Mercedes Kailah (14/10/06)
Lil miss:Chiara Louise Chloe (09/07/08)
Her ladyship:Rosalia Sophie Anais (18/06/12)
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Posted By: nikkitheknitter
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 3:24pm
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Ahhhh I get ya.
I guess I consider that she's still in charge because she's doing a good job, not because she's doing a bad one
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Posted By: caraMel
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 3:24pm
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You're right Nikki, I was miserable on minimum wage when Labour first came in and it is a lot better now than it was back then.
FIL is a business man and when he heard last election that DH and I were planning to vote Labour he went nuts trying to sway DH. He spouted all kids of rubbish about how we would benefit. DH came home and was completely convinced until I showed him the facts I'd researched, disproving most of FIL's claims. Its so important to do your research about the things that are important to you and your family, rather than just relying on the headlines and other people's opinions. So much of it turns out to be twisted or wrong! ------------- Mel, Mummy to E: 6, B: 4 and:
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Posted By: Maya
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 3:25pm
Or is she still in charge coz of lack of alternatives? Credit where credit is due re: minimum wage tho, I started my working life at New World on $5.15 an hour... ------------- Maya Grace (28/02/03)
(02/01/06)
The Gremlins:Sienna Marie & Mercedes Kailah (14/10/06)
Lil miss:Chiara Louise Chloe (09/07/08)
Her ladyship:Rosalia Sophie Anais (18/06/12)
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Posted By: nikkitheknitter
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 3:28pm
Well, TBH as a business man he probably would be better off voting National - or further right. |
Posted By: nikkitheknitter
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 3:30pm
Personally I think it's a good one but I could see that others would argue the latter. Really a PMs job is to put the right people in the right places. I guess I don't agree with allll her choices but I don't disagree too much with the people she does have in place. Gaz's dad would contest that Cullen is an idiot... I don't know enough about finance to comment. |
Posted By: Maya
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 3:34pm
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I'm not a financier either but he does have questionable social skills and he comes across as a bit of a dweeb.
I have a shady memory for politics, but there seem to have been a few dodgy labour MP's of late (ole Mr Taito Philip Field, David Benson-Pope...) and then the recent immigration scandal, altho to be fair I think Helen Clark handled that particular situation very well given the circumstances. ------------- Maya Grace (28/02/03)
(02/01/06)
The Gremlins:Sienna Marie & Mercedes Kailah (14/10/06)
Lil miss:Chiara Louise Chloe (09/07/08)
Her ladyship:Rosalia Sophie Anais (18/06/12)
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Posted By: Maya
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 3:36pm
Then again, to argue against myself, I voted ACT and they were responsible for Donna Awatere-Huata  ------------- Maya Grace (28/02/03)
(02/01/06)
The Gremlins:Sienna Marie & Mercedes Kailah (14/10/06)
Lil miss:Chiara Louise Chloe (09/07/08)
Her ladyship:Rosalia Sophie Anais (18/06/12)
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Posted By: nikkitheknitter
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 3:45pm
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hehehe
I'm sure there are plenty more who have just managed to hide their past/present better
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Posted By: caraMel
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 3:48pm
Yeah I realise that. What bugged me about it was him assuming his son should vote the same way because it suited him (FIL) when voting Labour was much better for us and our family! ------------- Mel, Mummy to E: 6, B: 4 and:
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Posted By: Maya
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 3:56pm
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I don't know who my Mum votes for, she's a big believer that you shouldn't tell anyone who you vote for, hence why it's a secret ballot, but Dad usually votes right. ------------- Maya Grace (28/02/03)
(02/01/06)
The Gremlins:Sienna Marie & Mercedes Kailah (14/10/06)
Lil miss:Chiara Louise Chloe (09/07/08)
Her ladyship:Rosalia Sophie Anais (18/06/12)
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Posted By: nikkitheknitter
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 3:57pm
| Yep I'd see why ya would keep it secret - especially when it could seriously divide a family if you were that concerned about it! |
Posted By: Henna79
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 5:16pm
| just to get a on the money bandwagon a bit DH said to me today something re tax and better earning jobs. He has a good paying job but nearly half goes in tax so we end up being in the same position as people who earn less but because we earn more we get no benefits. Meaning that we struggle just as much but get no help from anyone all because he has a better paying job. Thats kinda stink if you ask me as he ends up paying for others to survive. |
Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 5:24pm
hmmm ECE... dont start me they did all that but didnt provide more centres..now there is nowhere for the kids to go and the policy of 20 free hours is awful... great for parents ...totally awful for centres:( i dislike it when govts make decisions FOR me like smacking...:( find it really crappy they don't listen to the general public and that it isn't going to help who they want it too:( ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Posted By: Maya
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 6:38pm
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Yeah, from what I saw the 20 free hours implementation was a shambles, Maya's preschool had to take out a mortgage to cover costs as the scheme came in on 1 July but the ministry weren't paying them till Nov, and they also had to charge a quality charge per session coz the ministry funding didn't fully cover their costs. Because we qualified for childcare subsidy, we were only $10 per week better off with the 20 hours free when you take the quality charge into account. ------------- Maya Grace (28/02/03)
(02/01/06)
The Gremlins:Sienna Marie & Mercedes Kailah (14/10/06)
Lil miss:Chiara Louise Chloe (09/07/08)
Her ladyship:Rosalia Sophie Anais (18/06/12)
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Posted By: Jennz
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 6:56pm
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If people think that voting national will put more money in the average families pocket they are sadly mistaken!
The main thing I would be interested to know about is what either of their policies are on foreign investment and banking regulation. Our interest rates are so high to try and decrease inflation (its the only tool the reserve bank has), caused by our house prices sky rocketing over the past few years- one huge contributor to that is people investing in NZ from overseas. High interest rates affect us all- mortgage payments go up, house values drop, mortgagee sales increase, rent prices go up and we all have less money in our pockets. The high interest rates are actually due to a collection of factors, but primarily the housing market. Both from overseas property investment but also Banks progressively became less and less risk adverse, allowing more and more people to have more money than they normally would have to buy houses and stimulating demand. It spirals, so their standards got more and more loose, meaning more people had access to cash and pushing prices up. The only way that the continual growth is available to the levels that it was is due to money coming from outside the country, and banks giving more money inside the country. National would never regulate banks, and are all for foreign investment. As for money in our pockets. Again, traditionally National like to sell and privatise things to fund tax cuts like our public transport, our airports, our power companies- when we don't need to. Its like selling your car to pay your mortgage- all fine and dandy the first time but then where does the money come from? When these companies become private- they are no longer government regulated, their main aim is to make profits for their shareholders. Whether or not that improves services is debatable. A publicly controlled asset generally utilises money given to it, and earned through its services at a breakeven point - I.e. it doesn't want to make money. If it does make money then the person who receives that money is the government, who can utilise it to benefit the country as a whole. However, if you privatise an asset, the goal is to make a profit and the profit is only ever distributed to the select few with the investment. This is usually the wealthy, due to them have a larger disposable income to invest. To make these profits it has to come from somewhere, generally the country as a whole, and if profits are being made they are therefore taking more from the general public than they really need. What National do is an amazing piece of moving money from the poor to the rich, but most people fail to see the bigger picture. The rich will get lower taxes (contributing more to their income), this extra money will be invested in entities who then make profits and pay out dividends to their owners. So, the cost to the public as a whole is less public services, more private services, at a greater cost, resulting less money for the majority, and more money for the minority. The primary difference between Labour and National is that Labour sold off assets when we really needed to, whereas National sells them off when we don't need to. We are all going to notice the increase in petrol and food prices- its happening all over the world and its not Labours fault. I think so many people think that voting National in will mean more money for the average family but when has it ever? I don't ever remember a time when a National government has put more money in the average families pocket- they're very good at making out they will but the reality is always very different. They either blatantly lie or they give with one hand and take with the other. They traditionally look after corporates, the very rich and particularly like to brown nose with America- farmers like to delude themselves that they look after them too but its been a long time since farmers have actually been better off under a National government. Sorry for the big rant- I just find it so frustrating when people I know (like my friends and family-all lower to middle income bracket) say they are going to vote National because 'they want a change' and would 'like a tax cut', and don't learn from our past. They don't even look into Nationals policies (not that they have any!) and just blindly assume that because its different, it will be better- even though it never has been before. I know that others are totally educated about both parties and still believe National are the better option- I think that everyone is entitled to their opinion however formed. I just wish more people would educate themselves instead of blindly making such an important decision based on something as trivial as a tax cut or wanting change. ------------- Jen, Charlotte 7 & Kate 3
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Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 6:57pm
yeah the funding is all done in advance..and its a massive balls up:( ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Posted By: nikkitheknitter
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 7:16pm
Disclaimer: This is the opinion of Jenna, Nikki and Ana |
Posted By: lizzle
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 7:41pm
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i am anti-national cause they don't seem to really HAVE any policies. they seemt o just say "oh Labour sux" but not say what they plan to do. dodgy if you ask me.
BTW am loving the political debate. |
Posted By: Jennz
Date Posted: 23 May 2008 at 8:13pm
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lol Nikki ------------- Jen, Charlotte 7 & Kate 3
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