co-sleeping: seven babies die
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Topic: co-sleeping: seven babies die
Posted By: weegee
Subject: co-sleeping: seven babies die
Date Posted: 10 December 2008 at 9:01am
Such a sad story: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10547314 - link (The coroner) made no secret of his dissatisfaction that the practice of co-sleeping, and other "unsafe" sleeping practices, had not been discouraged enough. Officials and media sobbed as grieving mothers took the witness stand to tell the story of their babies' last hours... All mothers were young. All were Maori. All either slept with their babies or had slept them on their tummies or on pillows where they had been found face down or partly covered in a blanket. Each had stories about how their babies had been lovingly wrapped, tucked into bed, fed and kissed before they'd woken to find them dead several hours later. At my antenatal class we were told that co-sleeping was absolutely fine as long as you weren't obese, drunk or on drugs. But according to this article "in some cases... none of those factors was present". In the early days I occasionally co-slept with JJ, when he was going through a growth spurt or proving particularly difficult to settle. This story has me thanking my lucky stars! (As an aside - check out some of the poor babies' names... I'm all for a bit of originality, but Yozahliyah?  )------------- 
Mum to JJ, 4 July 2008 & Addie, 28 July 2010 |
Replies:
Posted By: tishy
Date Posted: 10 December 2008 at 9:08am
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So sad!
And yeah we were told the same thing at our AN classes, (it was a very homebirth/holistic orientated class anyway) We had to attend a Safety/first aid class before leaving NICU and they told us that co-sleeping was the no 1 cause of SIDS due to overheating. |
Posted By: lilfatty
Date Posted: 10 December 2008 at 9:20am
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I co-slept with Isabelle when she was ickle .. just followed basic common sense (no blankets - she was wrapped) no pillows etc etc.
In fact in the hospital they stuck her in bed with me .. which I would have thought was worse as I was under the influence of powerful drugs! Now she comes into our bed if she wakes at 5ish .. then she settles down till 7. ------------- Mummy to Issy (3) and Elias (18 months) I did it .. 41 kgs gone! From flab to fab in under a year  http://www.femininefitness.co.nz/category/blog - LFs weight blog
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Posted By: peanut butter
Date Posted: 10 December 2008 at 9:26am
| I wouldnt really call what we did co-sleeping as generally Tom was the only one getting sleep! But I was paranoid about it and froze my arse off as I didnt use extra blankets on him, duvet was at about my knee level. He was in his sleep sack and all pillows were moved off the bed. Not ideal for a tired mum! But it helped him no end (and was really lovely too) |
Posted By: Peanut
Date Posted: 10 December 2008 at 9:29am
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I was the same, Lil fatty.
I often slept with Mac when he was little and wouldn't settle but was just really careful with blankets etc. As it was summer it wasn't too bad. They also put mac in bed with me in hospital on night 2 when he wouldn't settle. And he still sleeps in with us if he wake anytime from 4am and won't settle (although that hasn't happened in about a week, yah! he might be sleeping through finally)! -------------  
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Posted By: MrsMojo
Date Posted: 10 December 2008 at 9:34am
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That's so sad. I do think the reporter (and possibly the coroner) is obviously against co-sleeping though as the article actually says not all the babies co-slept (some were sleeping on pillows - which we all know is dangerous) but the headline tells a different story. I'm actually all for co-sleeping. I wasn't always but my attitude changed when I had a baby that would only sleep for 45 mins day or night unless she was in my arms (having said that I'd prefer not to share my bed with anyone so this baby will start out in a basinette just as Michaela did and I hope it likes it in there). Many people believe that co-sleeping can actually reduce the occurence of sids and co-sleeping is very common in non-western cultures but there are huge differences in the practice and also in the bedding used in western countries and I think the problem is that many westerners don't follow safe co-sleeping practices such as: Basically we're given all these rules in AN classes about how cots should be set up to be safe and so if you choose to co-sleep with your child your bed should be set up in the same way (if that makes sense). Those that intend to co-sleep might want to check out sites like this one: http://www.parenthood.com/article-topics/safe_co_sleeping_with_your_baby.html - http://www.parenthood.com/article-topics/safe_co_sleeping_with_your_baby.html on safe co-sleeping. -------------  
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Posted By: CuriousG
Date Posted: 10 December 2008 at 11:05am
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My gripe is that in that article is says that of 54 infants, 24 died while sharing an adult bed.
So, 30 died in their own cot? To me, that means it may actually be safer to share beds. I am all for co sleeping, we have done it from pretty much day dot as she was so hard to settle and still do. The only reason we are about to stop it is that she is getting too big and it seems that DH and I have our "sides" and DD has her "half".  ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: MrsMojo
Date Posted: 10 December 2008 at 11:28am
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LOL, I hadn't read it that thoroughly - good point!
PMSL, same thing happens in our house when Michaela decides to come into bed with us. She takes over my 1/2 and DH and I are restricted to his half. Could be worse though, my sis and her husband often share their bed with 3 sons (7yo, 2yo and 1yo). -------------
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CuriousG wrote:Posted By: lilfatty
Date Posted: 10 December 2008 at 11:31am
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And I was wondering how Im going to fit womble in .. DH might have to sleep on the floor!
------------- Mummy to Issy (3) and Elias (18 months) I did it .. 41 kgs gone! From flab to fab in under a year http://www.femininefitness.co.nz/category/blog - LFs weight blog
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Posted By: AzzaNZ
Date Posted: 10 December 2008 at 11:42am
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We always co-slept. It was the only way I could handle a baby who breastfed every 45 minutes.
This story scares me! |
Posted By: MrsMojo
Date Posted: 10 December 2008 at 11:48am
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Master 7 gets a bed set up on the floor and Master 2 has a 3 sided cot pushed up against their bed. Master 2 & 7 also have their own beds in their own room. -------------
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Posted By: weegee
Date Posted: 10 December 2008 at 12:37pm
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Interestingly, they have changed their headline now, must have had some complaints/feedback. The headline of the http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10547398 - updated story is "Baby deaths spark call for better bedsharing warnings" which is much more objective.
When I was deciding whether or not to co-sleep I really liked this article from http://www.lalecheleague.org.nz/~lllnz/index.php/resources/articles-a-information/33-ah-nights - La Leche League : Is it safe to sleep with your new baby? Of course. Imagine a cave woman laying her newborn in a separate niche in the cave for the night, well away from the warmth and protection of her body. Now that's unsafe sleeping! It's also unsafe to have gaps that would allow your baby to slip between bed and wall, or between mattress and frame, or to lay your baby on poofy pillows, bedding, or mattress from which he can't free his face. And it's not safe to sleep with a baby if you're severely obese, or have been drinking heavily or taking drugs that keep you from rousing normally. There. That's out of the way. What's left? Adults who are never completely unconscious (or they'd fall out of bed), sleeping with a very lumpy object (with a head like a grapefruit-sized rock) that yells when it's squeezed. Works fine. What do you gain? Normal breathing and heart rates for your baby, without the breathless periods so often observed in solitary-sleeping babies. Normal baby sleep - which does not mean long hours of deep, hard-to-rouse-from sleep, though that might seem desirable. An even body temperature, warmer and more stable than the most expensive hospital baby-warming unit can provide. A mellower baby at night, with far less crying. Safety from fire, kidnapping, and goblins. Lots of languid cuddle time. You certainly gain vastly easier baby-care, especially if you learn to breastfeed lying down during the day, when your tolerance and inventiveness are intact. Infant sleep researchers believe solitary sleep may be linked to higher rates of SIDS. This is a very difficult relationship to prove, since sleep arrangements change and since SIDS may have multiple causes. But we do know that many of the risk factors associated with SIDS are increased when babies sleep alone, and that cultures that share sleep tend to have low rates of SIDS. Shared sleep is as old as humankind, and small children crave it. In the end the main reason we didn't co-sleep was that my husband couldn't sleep with our noisy bubba in the same room, let alone the same bed! edit to update link -------------
Mum to JJ, 4 July 2008 & Addie, 28 July 2010 |
Posted By: MrsMojo
Date Posted: 10 December 2008 at 1:13pm
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My husband took to sleeping on the couch (although that was mostly because a. he was a smoker and b. he started taking sleeping pills so it was unsafe to have him in bed with her). I'm glad they changed the headline. -------------
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Posted By: CuriousG
Date Posted: 10 December 2008 at 2:55pm
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Safe from Goblins? PMSL!
That advice is really good. There is so much emphasis put on not co-sleeping! ------------- http://lilypie.com">
http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: caitlynsmygirl
Date Posted: 10 December 2008 at 3:47pm
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I never had to co sleep with Caitlyn , one thing she always did as a baby was sleep well , and im far too selfish to share my bed with a baby (Im still trying to convince DF that I should have the bed and he sleep on the floor )
but aside from that, what a sad article, I hope all the mums have a lot of support . ------------- 
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Posted By: scribe
Date Posted: 10 December 2008 at 10:38pm
But that would be assuming that 50% of families co-sleep. I think the amount would be a lot smaller, of the few people that I mentioned it to, all were shocked that we co-slept for a spell with Clara... I was quite shocked by this story, as I'd read that co-sleeping was fairly safe as long as you weren't smokers etc. But I can see how it happens, when we co-slept with Clara we were both severely sleep deprived (we co-slept cos she just would not sleep in her bassinet)... and I think sleep deprivation can be as bad as going to sleep drunk - I'd like to think we would have been aware if we'd rolled onto her while asleep, but I just don't know, we were so exhausted. I think co-sleeping is great for all the reasons outlined in the article Weegee posted, but I think there needs to be a little more warning about the risks, and people should be more careful in those hazy early days. ETA: oops Weegee already posted link to new story |
Posted By: CuriousG
Date Posted: 11 December 2008 at 7:40am
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I also read the actual article in the newspaper last night which highlighted exactly what these mothers found when they awoke. One woman was basically on top of her son. Now, when I was co sleeping, there was NO WAY I could have rolled over right on top of DD. I was so aware of her there, I put myself into a position with my arm up curled around her plus she was a big hard lump - I am pretty sure I would have noticed.
------------- http://lilypie.com">
http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: MrsMojo
Date Posted: 11 December 2008 at 7:50am
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I didn't read the article but DH said it also told of the sleeping practices of some of the parents for instance one of the mothers slept in a single bed with her 6wk old twins. -------------
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Posted By: CuriousG
Date Posted: 11 December 2008 at 8:08am
Yep. That was the one that found her baby boy UNDER her. We sleep in a king bed. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: caitlynsmygirl
Date Posted: 11 December 2008 at 9:49am
.a single bed with newborn twins?  -------------
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Posted By: EmDee
Date Posted: 11 December 2008 at 9:50am
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This is so sad. I hope that the parents have had a lot of support.
I've only co-slept on occasion with my kids (usually when they've been unsettled), and like Kelly it's because of selfish reasons - I love sleep and I find it hard to sleep with a baby in the bed. I like the idea of co-sleeping though and I think a lot of it comes down to common sense. I don't think sleeping in a single bed with twins is common sense. ------------- DS 8 DD 6 DS 4 DD 2 |
Posted By: caitlynsmygirl
Date Posted: 11 December 2008 at 1:36pm
Yeah, i really hope they've got and had a lot of support, how awful 
I have to say tho , that despite being a selfish sleeper, if i had too with this baby , i would have no problem co sleeping occasionally , heck whatever works and lets you both get some sleep . Besides.....if I can put up with DF and his blardy snoring , I can put up with anything now ...tho I guess I wont be able to kick the baby in the shins .... -------------
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Posted By: Shezamumof3
Date Posted: 03 January 2009 at 8:30pm
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omg thats so scary.
I am 100% against co-sleeping, for that reason. Caden was always always in his own bed, and he always sleeps really well, the only time he comes into our bed is in the morning when we are all awake. I just could never forgive myself if I rolled onto him or something, the thought scares the crap out of me. ------------- |
Posted By: SuperDaddy
Date Posted: 03 January 2009 at 9:30pm
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We still on the odd occassion have Issy sleep with us.
Well Issy sleeps and we gets kicked in the chest alot with her big feet -------------  
 
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Posted By: Shezamumof3
Date Posted: 04 January 2009 at 12:51pm
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lol SD.
Im also on the selfish side where my bed is MY bed lol. ------------- |
Posted By: rorylex
Date Posted: 05 January 2009 at 1:06pm
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we co slept the 2nd half of the night when they would stir as i mastered breastfeeding while lying down and they just went back to sleep, I would stay awake while feeding and then move then so they werent in a position to be rolled on, some times i would move them to the bassinet but i found they slept longer while cosleeping neither of us a smokers nor do we drink and we dont have them in the middle of the bed if i feed them of the side that put them in the middle of the bed i would move them back to the other side. mason co slept til 3mths when he stopped breastfeeding and moved to his own room. I found co sleeping from the start helped avoid sleep deprivation as i only had to wake for a few minutes and it was usually at 5am, they all just happened to be good sleepers. i found i was always aware of there prsence i mean they are all in there own rooms but i wake to the slightest noise that comes from either one of them.
i didnt do any research i just did what i felt comfertable doing. it is sad and very horrible thing for a parent to go through there must be alot of guilt going through these parents minds. though co sleeping with twins in a single bed is very silly thing to do i wouldnt do it in any size bed. the article states that some of the babies were slept on there tummys and some on pillows, had they been in there own bed the same out come would have followed right? unless i miss read it. when we co slept we had a space clear for baby so no one could roll on him or where blankets could end up over his face. we only have one pillow each and dp has his up against the wall and mine is pulled over which left mason with about half a metre of his own space and he had a side of a shelf beside him so he couldnt roll off the bed and he got swaddled and slept next to my heads so he couldnt be rolled on and for the sheets to cover him the would have to cover my face 1st. ------------- Mummy to 4 boys Samuel - 18.6.05 Rory - 15.7.06 Mason - 13.06.08 Emmett - 24.01.10 Baby #5 - cooking |
Posted By: freckle
Date Posted: 06 January 2009 at 5:42am
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What a sad story!!
I co slept with both my kids from the start and I was always so concious of them being there that I didn't even move position slightly while asleep. They always slept much better in bed with me and it made feeding so easy... sometimes I'd wake to my wee one having a snack!! I did lots of reading about it when deciding to cosleep and I read a really interesting book which talked about cosleeping practices around the world and lower rates of sids with cosleeping populations (as someone mentioned earlier). It also talked about research showing that even while asleep mothers continue to provide care for there children, responding to babies whimpers etc whilst not fully concious. I don't think my DF had the same awareness of baby in the bed and therefore, she always slept on my side - or DF on the couch  ------------- mum to 3 lovely girls :D |
Posted By: pomikiwi
Date Posted: 09 January 2009 at 12:03pm
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There's risks having them in bed and risks with not, either way it's horrific! I couldn't co-sleep as i'm a very grumpy girl wth less than 8 hours sleep, lol!
I'll sleep with DD now though and have in the past if we go away or if she's sick but I hardly sleep when she's with me. ------------- http://lilypie.com">  
DD-Carys Amelia 17.03.06 |