3 year olds
Printed From: OHbaby!
Category: Have A Baby?
Forum Name: Kindy and Beyond
Forum Description: So you've survived the sleepless nights and toddler tantrums, now the fun really begins! Talk to other parents of older children here!
URL: https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30875
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Topic: 3 year olds
Posted By: FionaS
Subject: 3 year olds
Date Posted: 09 January 2010 at 10:49pm
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Let me start by saying my 3 year old is amazing. She is outgoing, extroverted (unlike her mum & dad) and loves life.
She is however....mad. 
2 was a pretty good age for us but 3 is such hard work! Here is a summary: The kid never sits still unless totally and utterly exhausted. She has no interest in constructive activity of any sort...she is 100% about imaginary play or running. She barely eats...we've tried every trick in the book and yet she lives on fresh air. Meals with the family is near on impossible as she won't eat and can't sit still. She shouts at the top of her lungs and carries on gleefully in her own imaginary world each night before going to sleep...no amount of asking her to keep her noise down works. She is awake hours in the night, either doing more excited yelling whilst rocking her body back and forth OR more recently, chatting quietly to herself. As a result she is tired from the moment she gets up. By midday her behaviour is horrid from exhaustion and a good 3 hour nap is needed to refresh her. She seems incapable of sleeping much in the night. Her favourite words are "I want" and "I don't want" and we hear them a zillion times a day. Manners don't come easily. DH and I use manners at all times even when alone together...it is just part of who we are. She shouts at us and refuses when we ask her to do something, even if we make it fun, or a game, or give her choices....She just likes to be contrary I think. We certainly never shout, not at her, not even at each other. So....is this just 3 year old girls? I love her with all my being and I love that she is so different from me but BOY it is hard work! I almost feel like I am drowning in the mess of it all. It feels like it is so hard to make progress. I know it is about enjoying the good and picking the battles but it often feels like there are soooooo many things that need to change behaviourally and yet it *feels* like nothing works. The sleeping issue is probably at the core but no professional seems to be able to help. ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Replies:
Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 10 January 2010 at 10:27am
i dont have girls of that age - as you know  - but when toby was three i hated it! It was the longest year ever and it felt like he was 2 for 2 years!
i kow you only asked if it was normal and not ways to change or help but i did want to say that when you write it all down and think only of the big picture it can be very overwhelming and feel insurmountable. If you want to start changing her behaviours then i would suggest you pick just one to start with. Ignore (unless it is harmful or outright bad behaviour) most other things and concentrate on one behaviour. It might pay to make it a smaller problem and work up to the big ones. You are probably going to have to find a method that works for you as well... i really like the diane levy ask, tell, act method and we use a variation of that (when i remember  ).
had to edit it cause i forgot i do have a girl ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker"> 
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Posted By: CuriousG
Date Posted: 10 January 2010 at 10:52am
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Fiona, yes, I would say its fairly normal 3 year old behaviour. I have found this year the hardest yet, the terrible 2's were nothing compared to this threenager behaviour! We have the some of the same problems, can't sit still, won't do constructive activity (if she sits down to draw, it lasts about 30 seconds then turns into massive scribbles and finally gets up and runs away - after about a minute). She can't tidy up, she literally doesn't know where to start even if its simply putting her pens away. She will eat but usually only on her terms, of what she wants and she won't stay in her seat to do it (drives me batty, food EVERYWHERE).
Charlotte is also an I want or I don't want girl. We have to constantly remind her to use her manners but praise her when she does it by herself. She yells and screams at us when she is frustrated or angry. She won't go to bed by herself, its an uphill battle each night. She also won't sleep through. While we don't have the noisy yelling, she keeps coming out of her room and driving us bonkers to the point of threatening her with being put outside or more recently, a smack (which never happens because I actually don't believe in it but I get to the end of my teather - this threat usually works). I am fairly sure most of this is totally normal. But I hear you on it, its blimmin hard work and sometimes, while I love her to bits, I really don't like her much. I have seen it in friends of ours kids too, their boy who is now 6 was very similar until he turned 5 and started school. I am hoping we have some success around that time too. One can only hope!  ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: jaycee
Date Posted: 11 January 2010 at 7:59pm
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can I join too . Our issues are different again - Amy eats and sleeps well and always has but has a real attitude and TT issues.
We first started TT this time last year and got serious in April. It never went well. After 6 months she started refusing to go to the toilet and was having 4 or 5 accidents a day. I was losing the plot with her and my inability to deal with the situation totally wrecked our relationship for several months. She went back into nappies and pull ups from October until today. Today is day 1 of *operation toilet training* - call me mad but I am trying to do both of them together .
Her favorite expression for the last 6 months has been "I don't love you any more - I want a new Mummy"  .
Terrible twos were easy - threenagers are just horrible. As CuriousG said - I love her to bits but I don't like her much at the moment.  I am trying so very hard to be kind, gentle and calm and the last few days have been better but boy it is hard work!-------------   
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Posted By: Chickaboo
Date Posted: 11 January 2010 at 9:12pm
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Jaycee (and anyone else with the TT issues) your not alone. When Rhyley first showed signs (at least a year ago) I was thrilled and keen as - unfortuantley rhyley didn't share the same 'passion' as me and so we decided to put it off. Now we have started again and well as long as i keep reminding him and sometimes 'threatening/bribingg' him he just doesn't go on the potty (he had a choice and he picked the potty) but if I keep remembering he is dry all day.
I also think I stress about the TT cause I think he's too big for nappies (even pull ups during the day) Hes 3 years and 2 months. I compare (I know naughty) to the older 2 that they were fully TT by now and i also in an ideal world wanted him out of nappies/pull ups by the time Elodie arrived - obviously it didn't happen! We have now started a sticker chart but once again he doesn't tell me he needs the TT Anyhow not a TT thread i understand... Oh and I don't think its just a GIRL thing.... Where as I  love his personality at this age - hes such a character and a joker - hes got a 1000 and 1 expressions and sayings.....
he is also been trying with the 'NO' and the yelling... like a real grunty yell.. espec at his older sister (although must admit she does wind him up on occassions so 'deserves' some of it) Meal times - yuck - I hate it - its a constant battle telling him he has to eat so much more or else hes in the naughty corner (which most meals he spends some time in it) We sit down to have a meal as a family so its important he does the 'rule' as well and it drives us mad - when will it end? tell us it ends?! (note first older 2 do not remember meal time drama being so much of a drama - although it could be selective memory as well) ------------- http://lilypie.com">  
876 |
Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 11 January 2010 at 10:12pm
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chickaboo it has always been our rule too that we all sit at the table together... and i enforce that. However i dont make the kids eat. If they dont eat they go hungry! takes a lot of hassle out! ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 12 January 2010 at 3:37pm
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Bizzy...what do you do if they wiggle & jiggle and get up and down and twist around and hang upside down (lol) constantly at the table? ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 12 January 2010 at 4:10pm
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so long as they are at the table... hanging upside down maybe not cause i dont like feet when i am eating. when they were smaller it was a bit harder, and sometimes it meant going and bringing them back to the table... but talking to the kids sometimes helped or talking to my husband cause then the kids want to get in on that... wiggling and jiggling mainly gets ignored unless they are annoying a sibling! ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: Chickaboo
Date Posted: 12 January 2010 at 4:57pm
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deb - when i say he has to eat so much more i mean something - I should just let him go hungry but feel he should eat something... some times he just has to eat carrots.
also would you keep them a the table for the duration of the meal? or just till they had enough?(and you ha enough for that matter!) ------------- http://lilypie.com">
876 |
Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 12 January 2010 at 6:02pm
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i never force the kids to eat anything. if they dont want anything on their plate they go hungry! Now that gabriel is a bit older tho i do get him to taste something before he declares its yuck! and they seem willing to do that.
and yes they stay at the table till we have all finished. if hubby and i are sitting chatting tho i dont make them stay for that. just till we have finished dinner (oh and if hubby or i want seconds i dont make the kids wait for that either...). ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: Chickaboo
Date Posted: 12 January 2010 at 9:29pm
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aH I see BAsically what we do here as well Debs.
ETA: Never force him to eat just make sure he tries some out rather than mucking around not eating ------------- http://lilypie.com">
876 |
Posted By: singlemumwith2
Date Posted: 20 January 2010 at 10:42am
| my son has been a great eatter until he turned three and like everyone else i have tryed everything but i have found the best thing is if he is not hungry well then he stays at the table with the rest of us and i allow him to eat when he is ready that way he doesnt get stressed when it comes to meal times. |
Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 20 January 2010 at 5:47pm
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Elle barely eats nowadays. She literally lives on fresh air which would be fine except she is tired from the moment she gets up and really isn't coping with life at all. She needs food but won't eat. ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: Jay_R
Date Posted: 21 January 2010 at 11:58am
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Is there any food that she particularly likes and will eat? We used to have big issues with food, and in the end I would only give him what I knew he would eat. Perhaps you could try just tiny amounts at a time, and then if you succeed make the portions a bit bigger and then if that succeeds then start adding new things in. I started introducing new foods to Josh by saying he just had to bite and chew it, and then if he didn't like it then could spit it out. I started with things I knew tasted good like watermelon and rice pudding and then graduated to stuff like broccoli and asparagus. Now he's eating red meat and pasta, plus most veges and fruit. Takes perseverance but you get there. Also, I give him an effervescent multi-vitamin drink most days just to make sure he's not becoming deficient in any important vitamins.
Good luck, she's a great girl and you will get there!! |
Posted By: AandCsmum
Date Posted: 21 January 2010 at 9:07pm
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If you are worried about behaviours an interesting book to read is Sue Dengates "Fed up with ADHD" not saying your girl is ADHD, but she sounds more hypo like my daughter was. She has a website, with this booklet. http://www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info/extras/Failsafebooklet.htm - linky
"The Failsafe Booklet is intended for parents who would like to reduce additives or try a 3 week additive-free diet for children with behaviour problems. For symptoms severe enough to see a doctor, or conditions with a diagnosis such as ADHD, we recommend a three week trial of the RPAH (Royal Prince Alfred Hospital) elimination diet - free of additives, low in salicylates and amines, dairy free and/or gluten free if indicated - to find out exactly which food chemicals are contributing to problems. In our experience, this is the most effective elimination diet in the world" I found certain foods triggered her & if I cut them out then she is much calmer. Also sorted Alia's sleeping problems. But totally understand how you can love them so much & yet hate them in the same breath! ------------- Kel http://lilypie.com"> 
A = 01.02.04 & C = 16.01.09 & G = 30.03.12 |
Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 21 January 2010 at 9:44pm
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Thanks Aliasmum. I've read all that and tried to stick with the fail safe diet but then she eats nothing.
As I type she is lying in bed rocking back and forth with a muslin over her face chanting out a pile of nonsense at the top of her lungs. She has been doing this for just over 2 hours solidly. She does this often in the night. ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: AandCsmum
Date Posted: 21 January 2010 at 10:38pm
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Does she just graze away all day? or just not eat?
Can you ask her how she feels? I never thought to do this before I cut out food, but now we do & she can tell me the ones that make her feel funny. Sakata rice crackers or Salada cracker & Pam chips are staples around here! Pancakes daily for breakfast tempt her as well. ------------- Kel http://lilypie.com">
A = 01.02.04 & C = 16.01.09 & G = 30.03.12 |
Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 22 January 2010 at 10:04am
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She will graze so I go for really healthy snacks like almonds, carrot sticks, fruit etc. If we do crackers we do either rice ones or ryvita.
I do ask her from time to time and she will sometimes say food makes her feel yuck but othertimes she says she feels fine and nothing is sore. Some members of DH's family has lactose / gluten / preservative / salicylate issues so I've previously tried a good 6 weeks off each of those groups of things but haven't seen any changes. I'm fairly convinced that dairy is ok is small doses but if given every day definitely worsens behaviour significantly. ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: Jay_R
Date Posted: 22 January 2010 at 12:52pm
| I know I've said this a few times already in the past, but I have a memory like a sieve and I can't recall what your answer was.... But her dislike of food, inabilitly to keep still, rocking and making loud noises are all quite pointed indicators of Autism. Has she been seen by anyone like a psychologist? Someone who could figure out if there were things you could be doing to combat these things? |
Posted By: AandCsmum
Date Posted: 22 January 2010 at 12:57pm
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If you would like I can email you the NZ shopping list. This contains all foods free of additives & preservatives.
The snacks you suggest tip Alia into a jiggling mess. She might also be set off by chemicals? perfumes etc. Currently Alia can only tolerate soft pears as her only fruit, simple vegetables, ie lettuce, celery, potato & beans. It's frustrating when they don't eat & if they do eat stuff you have to second guess everything. ------------- Kel http://lilypie.com">
A = 01.02.04 & C = 16.01.09 & G = 30.03.12 |
Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 22 January 2010 at 7:19pm
Yeap a while ago but as she is so strong with language and empathy they thought it unlikely. However my GP may send us for assessment for autistic spectrum / ADHD stuff. The rocking etc ONLY occur in the night....never ever in the daytime so they suspected a sleep disorder of some sort but had no suggestions for how to help it. ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
joshierocks wrote:Posted By: Bombshell
Date Posted: 24 January 2010 at 9:48pm
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you know we have watched Elles issues for a while on here...and u know I dont bite my tongue - so read or not.....and honestly apart from the night time I would go with normal...Elle is a normalthree year old....but the night time behaviour is the biggest giveaway that something is not right I think.
Ask you doctor to give a referral for Whirinaki or the local equivalent for you if you dont fit in to them....I think Elle sounds like she needs to be assessed and I am with the last post where she may be high functioning autistic - she is def a bright child but will need guidance at school by sounds of it. She can speak now and her behaviour can be assessed much better than a year or so again when you were having issues....def get her reassessed before she gets to school and you have the pleasure of them referring you to SES or the RTLB systems etc... I am sorry to see that night issues remainfor you (and her) - and no they are not normal.....but may be symptomatic signs of what is really going on....if she was sleeping normally I would say you have a perfectly normal 3 year old girl. |
Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 26 January 2010 at 5:05pm
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She has been much better since I cut out dairy. She can tolerate some but if she has it daily her behaviour goes to pot. I'm very pleased with the way is is behaving at the mo.
I've spoken with her Kindy teachers and they have no concerns. She is very empathetic, her language is amazing (she had 5 words by 9.5months). Her imaginery play is really amazing. Based on the empathy, language and play we've been told there is no way she is high functioning autistic. The current belief is that she has Rhythmic Movement Disorder. It is usually a stand alone sleep disorder. She has it to a severe degree combined with a REM cycle disorder. So she is in light sleep longer than most people and the RMD occurs during that. It naturally leads to less than restful sleep and hence tiredness and behavioural issues can sometimes be a side effect during bad episodes In some cases RMD is linked to ADHD so that is what we need to watch for when she starts school. As always it is unknown which comes first...a sleep disorder and hence behaviour issues or a brain wiring issue and hence a sleep disorder. At present signs are good as she can sit still at kindy during mat time, listens well, puts her hand up if asked questions etc. So fingers crossed it is all ok. It goes without saying that she is what many would consider "quirky" but let's face it...quirky / brilliant people are world-changers. ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: clover
Date Posted: 28 January 2010 at 11:37am
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Fiona, I don't have children myself and the child I'm going to mention is the child of a friend of a friend so I don't know them well but Gabrielle sounds just like her son. He is friendly, chatty and shows emotion but rarely sleeps and will only eat plain rice or crackers, that is it. He has been recently placed at the Aspergers end of the Austim spectrum (I think that is right) and the mum said to me that apart from having a few quirky habits, sleep issues and things like not understanding sarcasm he is just like every other kid. I only mention it because from what you have explained Gabrielle sounds a lot like him.
I hope I haven't spoken out of place, she sounds like a delightful wee girl and an active imagination has to be a great thing! |
Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 29 January 2010 at 10:10am
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Thanks Summerlamb. How old is her boy?
See Elle does sleep...almost always up until 1am and then again after 5am. This week she has slept through every night. She eats loads of fruit, bread, crackers, cheese, carrot, mince (yay!) and now some pasta (yay!)....we've been working really hard on textures and tastes and are making good progress. Not sure about the sarcasm thing as Elle appears to use it sometimes but I'm not sure if that is even possible at 3. Would be really interested to hear more about your friends boy though. Thank you. ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: clover
Date Posted: 29 January 2010 at 12:20pm
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He is 3 as well, was diagnosed at the end of last year I believe. The mother is a friend of a friend so I will try and get her details and let you know, I could get an email address for her if you wanted to get in touch.
I'm not sure what age they would pick up on sarcasm. It came up in our conversation when she was talking about the possible impact it would have on him in the future where she said that he may have problems understanding boundaries, peoples personal space and was likely to take everything very literally and not understand when people were being sarcastic. From what I saw he was very bright, the particular example was that I was astounded at his problem solving skills to move a large BBQ table to access an area he wanted, it was when I commented on this that I was told of his autism. He was put to bed while we were there and had gone to sleep but he aparently frequently wakes during the night. This all came from one conversation I had with the mum but I am sure she would be more than happy to speak with you so do let me know if you would like her details. |