Delli wrote: I try to stay pro-choice but find myself leaning toward pro-vaccine. I understand people who delay vaccines if they feel their child's immune system isn't up to it yet due to allergies etc - but struggle to understand people who don't vaccinate at all. Not only are they putting their own child at risk but they are putting other children who haven't yet had the vaccine and unborn babies at risk if they catch one the diseases and go out in public with it.

Hi, slightly OT, but as one of 'those people' who don't vaccinate their child (and trust me, it was a well researched, thought out, discussed choice), why would you be concerned about my child putting yours at risk if you are so sure that vaccinating your child will prevent them from getting the disease in question? Sorry, that doesn't make sense to me.  As for my baby catching a disease and giving it to another unvaccinated child, is that unfair if she passes it onto a child who parents choose not to vaccinate or who just to those who haven't had a chance to yet? You can't distinguish between the two. There's heaps of Mums on this forum who don't vaccinate and are probably more elequent then I in explaining it but the gist seems to be among us that we would rather risk natural disease in our children than some of the crap and over medication that is put in vaccines.  And btw, I"m not anti vaccine, I'm PRO CHOICE, and I think you'll find anyone here who doesn't vaccinate has made a well researched and informed decision not to! I am always reviewing my decision and would quite like one or two of the vaccinations seperately however I have been told by several Dr's this is not possible in NZ, depsite it being possible overseas.  Not trying to be rude or anything here, just giving you 'our' side as well

lol Delli- totally agree with that last bit about reading the same research and coming up with different answers! It has been one of the hardest decisions I've ever had to make and its one I've made in conjunction and with the support of our GP. He is (obviously) pro vaccine but also very pro choice....and knows I have spent hours and hours reading research and listening to other peoples opinions etc before making my own. I do know they used to have measle and chickpox parties and TBH I'm still a little unsure as to why measles is such a big deal these days? Im genuinely curious....I understand of course there are some small risks of things going very bad with it, however isn't that the case for many things?  I just feel as a society in general we seem to live in an attitude of fear of what *might* happen, and that really worries me. It also concerns me what vaccines have in them now as preservatives and the amount of things we are vaccinating against, esp in our really wee babes.  This concern for me is exacerbated by the fact that I can't seem to find any health professional to tell me the answers to the above, despite my attempts to find one. Even the vaccinations nurse educator or whatever she called herself couldn't tell me if the preservatives in our common vaccinations was mercury or therimosal (sp) and even our paed said the only reason to jab our kids was 'just in case' there was an outbreak.

Sorry have taken this OT again, and so don't want an arguement about pros and cons of it all, just trying to explain how I feel as a very loving Mama who is trying to do the best by her bubba.  I am saddened and annoyed by the 'scientist' mentioned in the OP as he has done nothing at all for pro choice nor research in general IMO.

Well written blondy - I don't disagree with what's been said. You're right in that we have the luxury to not have to worry about polio, diptheria, whooping cough deaths etc in NZ and that's part of the reason I don't vaccinate (yet).  I would actually very much like the whooping cough vaccine for Clodagh but Dr's tell me I can't get it seperately.  Also, Clodgah has a rather nasty egg allergy which I didn't know when I chose not to vaccinate her, but do now and it worried me she may react worse because of this.  Even the paed said she may well react badly...so what am I meant to do???

Oh and Delli- cheers for your post too  I understand the herd menality arguement however I'm not convinced immuinistaion is the sole reason behind death rates for disease dropping. Better food and hygenie have also got a lot to answer for!

I also understand about ruebella being very dangerous to unborn children and during pg, however that is a vaccination my daughter can get when she is older (as we did), as are tetenus and hepatitis. If she chooses to travel to countriesd where polio and diptheria are high risk of course I would reccommend her looking at her options to get vaccinated. I guess my arguement is that we are vaccinating our kids against all these things that MIGHT happen in a long shot in THIS country, rather than act when the threat is a bit higher. I'm probably not explaining it very well but as an example, tetenus is given to you whenever you have a bad accident even if you *are* vaccinated...I know from personal experience having been injured by my horses as a teen lol. And hepatitis?? That's sexually transmitted and or shared by bodily fluids! Why and how is my 12 month old gonna get that??? And even harder to imagine her getting it at 6 weeks old (considering I don't come from a high risk group for it I mean). Why are these disease being lumped in with arguebly more important ones like polio and diptheria? Again, I'm not being smart, I actually want to know and no one can tell me .

I may not be expaining myself as well as I could but it feels inherently wrong to me for us to be giving our children all these shots 'just in case'.  Especially when every few years more and more things are added to the schedule and the only people we have to trust that our babies 'need' them are the multi billionaire drug corporations who have a huge vested financial interest in our believing them!!

That's a fair point Blondy about why you immunise. Thanks too for explaining your viewpoint to me without telling me I'm doing something wrong or not respecting my opinion  Its a very hard decision to make and I can easily see both sides of the arguement. for now I'm still happy with our decision but am constantly checking with myself to make sure I still feel the same way....esp with winter coming on etc.  I'm still convinced that alongside vaccination ensuring we feed our children properly, keep them warm, have good hygenie and just use commonsense that those factors also will contribute to disease prevention.

Also, I have to say.....were it not for my deep distrust of pharmecuetical (sp?) companies (and huge multinationals in general lol), I would seriously reconsider my decision.....I cannot believe they create vaccines purely for the greater good without any financial interest involved...which I think potentially makes their ethics of what's put into them-and how they are tested- questionable (not saying there are not individuals within these companies who are not altruistic of course!)

My only comment is regarding the original article posted, and how dangerous a lot of so called reasearch can be.
Every week there seems to be reasearch being published in regards to what is and what isn't safe.

It will be interesting to see what we decide once our daughter is ready to be vaccinated as I'm pro-vaccine as I think the reason we have such a low incidence of contagious disease in NZ is because of vaccination.
Dh however isn't so convinced after contracting measles at 16, even though he had been vaccinated.

Someone mentioned Chicken pox - my understanding is this is viral and not able to be vaccinated against.
I've been vaccinated for Hepatitis not because its sexually transmitted, but because I was a volunteer lifeguard in my teens and the possible risk of transmission from coming into contact with bodily fluids.

For me having a daughter being vaccinated against rubella is a no-brainer - whether its done as a baby or when she's older if something I'll discuss with her GP. I got vaccinated at 12 and still have immunity.

I've had chicken pox, and DH has had shingles - which seems to be much worse and quite painful.