Neocate LCP vs Karicare Pepti Junior
Printed From: OHbaby!
Category: Support
Forum Name: Reflux and Allergy Support
Forum Description: Struggling with a refluxy baby? Looking for tips to deal with allergies? Share your experiences here.
URL: https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37554
Printed Date: 20 February 2025 at 9:25am
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Topic: Neocate LCP vs Karicare Pepti Junior
Posted By: MinaNZ
Subject: Neocate LCP vs Karicare Pepti Junior
Date Posted: 19 January 2011 at 11:27am
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Hi All
We are trying yet another formula for our little man. Our dietitan put him on Karicare Pepti Junior and he was fine to start with. After a few days he was crying all the time, would throw up and in the end refused to drink it. His nappies were still runny and when he was drinking it was hungry all the time. She's now given us Neocate LCP and i'm wondering if this will give him the same problems. Has anyone had any problems with Neocate?? I'm beginning to wonder if i should start solids sooner than the end of the month?? It feels like he's been a guinea pig for the doctors and seems to be constantly unwell. It really breaks your heart to see your baby unwell. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> 
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Replies:
Posted By: BriAndOlisMum
Date Posted: 19 January 2011 at 11:32am
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We are on Neocate LCP and have found it great. Only thing is Oliver can't handle it full strength or he gets really bad constipation (had been runny prior to neocate) so we make his bottles with 120 ml water and 5-6 scoops neocate. -------------  http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: MinaNZ
Date Posted: 19 January 2011 at 11:45am
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I'm really hoping this helps Callen. Dietitian believes if neocates doesn't help them he hasn't got an allergy and there's something else going on. Meantime we wait to see a Peds doc. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: AandCsmum
Date Posted: 19 January 2011 at 12:15pm
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If you join Neocate kids yahoo group, it's well known that pepti junior causes problems and Neocate doesn't.
We are also not on full strength neocate. We have 170ml water to 7 scoops not the 8 prescribed. I would start on half strength & then slowly work up by adding a scoop a day til you get to either full strength or you get to a point where you can see that he's not tolerating it & then take it back a step. Also they tend to take the right amount of scoops a day but over more bottles. So we started off on 8 half bottles a day & now we are down to 3 so he's still on a similar amount of scoops. Delay solids until you get him on an even keel with the formula. Cause other wise you're adding in more variables. ------------- Kel http://lilypie.com"> 
A = 01.02.04 & C = 16.01.09 & G = 30.03.12 |
Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 19 January 2011 at 6:51pm
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we have problems with pepti for Ethan and went on neocate no problems and straight onto it for Liam no issues.. *hugs* i know how hard it is..
Kel- we have 30mls per scoop? so he's 210 and 7 scoops? totally agree re the solids ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Posted By: Kimnthekids
Date Posted: 19 January 2011 at 8:11pm
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No problems with neocate, other than the constipation issues as well (which even though we've reduced formula we still struggle with)
Our specialist at the time said that he was happy for us to delay solids till close to 8 months - as it was a whole food, but he didnt want us waiting past then, so she was able to develop the skills needed for eating so to speak. So id also definately hold off the solids till you know the milk is working for him Its so hard isnt it at the start especially when you're trying to find out whats best and what works and why things arent as they should be. *hugs* ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: MinaNZ
Date Posted: 19 January 2011 at 8:20pm
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thanks for you advice. We've had him on so many formulas its got really frustrating. Dietitian wants to start him on solids at end of month. Just small portions.
Callen isn't keen on neocate and is always hungry. I'm finding it hard to keep positive. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 19 January 2011 at 10:14pm
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Hi MinaNZ, did the dietician explain to you the difference between the two formulas?In case they didn't I will try to but I'm not a dietician so bare with me. (I always find it helps to know why the advice is being given and why the steps they are taking are being taken).
Pepti junior has had the cows milk proteins(this is what babies are often allergic to, and is totally different to lactose intolerance) broken down to peptic acids, this makes them smaller than the long string proteins found in most foods and is part of what we do when we digest food. The idea is that their body won't recognise it as cow's milk protein and therefore won't have the same reaction as to normal formula, however some babies/children still do. Neocate is the next step up, it's had the cow's milk broken down to amino acids, this is as small as the buildling blocks of proteins go. Every protein we eat is broken down by our bodies to create amino acids which we then use to form our own proteins to use for muscle tissue and so forth. So as neocate is amino acids it's completely unrecognisable to the body as cow's milk protein and therefore the body won't attack it as can happen with the pepti. They often like to try pepti first, I think for one it is cheaper and also it's gives an idea of how allergic your child might be. My oldest was on neocate until roughly 2.5 year. As a baby he had quite a lot of allergies and was on a restricted diet for a while at 3.5 years he is pretty much on a normal diet, with only a nut allergy as a real concern. Have you tried adding a few drops of vanilla essence to the neocate? or the other thing they say is safe to add is golden syrup, then wean it out as they get use to the taste. The stuff if fowl. I had to mix it with his standard formula to get my boy to drink it and wean that way which isnt' ideal when the standard formula makes them sick, but then not eating also makes them sick. If you ring 0800 NEOCATE they can help you as well, I rang them over my boy not drinking the neocate and they helped me out heaps. ------------- 
 
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 19 January 2011 at 10:18pm
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oh yeah I agree re the solids as well, I don't think early weaning onto solids is going to help in any way shape or form, it will just add more potential sources or allergens in. Far better to get him happy and thriving on the formula and then introduce the solids slowly so that you can quickly identify and eliminate troublesome foods. -------------
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Posted By: MinaNZ
Date Posted: 20 January 2011 at 3:37pm
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thanks for the explaination cuppatea, the dietitian did roughly explain the difference. The thing i have an issue with is that they aren't sure if he has an allergy or not at this stage they are just trailing the formulas to see how he reacts. She said if this one doesn't agree with him then he doesn't have an allergy and possibly something else wrong with him. It's been almost 4mths of trying different meds and formula's to see what's wrong with him if anything. They're also taking into consideration that my hubby had allergies when he was a baby.
The hard part is that Callen always crying due to hunger and seems to be tired alot at the moment. The dietitian is also worried about the amount of milk he drinks and his weight, eventhough plunket have told me he's drinking the correct amount and is the correct weight for his height. Grrr this is all so confusing. Regarding the solids, both the dietitian and plunket believe he should be starting solids at 4mths. They have suggested i give him a teaspoon a day to start with. The dietitian said only vegetables so he doesn't put on too much weight. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 20 January 2011 at 3:52pm
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Well I trully believe that until they know for sure whether he has an allergy or not that he shouldn't be put on solids cos you are just going to create even more problems.
No offence to your dietician but maybe you need to take him to an allergy paed instead and plunket are notoriously useless when it comes to allergies so I wouldn't take too much of their advise to heart. I do understand your frustration but sometimes it's a case of giving it a good try before switching, you want to try the neocate for at least two weeks, cos it might be two weeks before you see any improvement let alone vast improvement, keep swapping between formulas and meds isn't going to do his system any good cos he doesn't have a chance for any damage to heal or for things to settle after a change. -------------
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Posted By: BriAndOlisMum
Date Posted: 20 January 2011 at 4:02pm
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I second cuppatea on that one. I would be taking him to a allergy pead asap, they will do blood tests which will show for sure what he is allergic to.
It is such a hard run to start with but once you figure out what is causing the problems you will have a happy bub and a happy mumma  ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: AandCsmum
Date Posted: 20 January 2011 at 8:53pm
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I agree with Cuppatea, once solids are in there without a conclusive answer re solids makes it so so hard to pick what allegies/intolerances are rearing their heads.
Babies don't need solids til they are 6 months old so I wouldn't worry too much. Definitely see an allergy paed if you can. Oh I see you are in PN...then in that case good luck with the paeds I'm seeing N Orr at the hospital, he is apparently the allergy specialist. The dietician at the hospital is a bit useless, I'm still waiting for a letter from an August visit. Does your boy have ezcema? ------------- Kel http://lilypie.com">
A = 01.02.04 & C = 16.01.09 & G = 30.03.12 |
Posted By: MinaNZ
Date Posted: 21 January 2011 at 10:29pm
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No he doesn't. Dietitian has a peds doc lined up just waiting for appointment. We were told they couldn't do any allergy tests.
Today is day three and he's showing signs of improvement. He seems happier, no crying fits lately and his nappies are a lot better. He doesn't like the taste so were slowly increasing the amounts at each feed. I'm trying to not get too excited with the improvement incase things take a turn for the worst. Fingers crossed this is the magic formula for him. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Kimnthekids
Date Posted: 22 January 2011 at 9:09pm
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I'm hoping right along with you! Nothing worse than an unhappy child - AND mum! ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: AandCsmum
Date Posted: 23 January 2011 at 5:17pm
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That is great to hear he is improving! ------------- Kel http://lilypie.com">
A = 01.02.04 & C = 16.01.09 & G = 30.03.12 |
Posted By: AandCsmum
Date Posted: 23 January 2011 at 5:18pm
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Your GP can order skin prick tests but usually they aren't all that reliable on kids under 2. Cooper had his done & they all came back negative. Severe intolerances won't show up on allergy tests. ------------- Kel http://lilypie.com">
A = 01.02.04 & C = 16.01.09 & G = 30.03.12 |
Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 23 January 2011 at 7:35pm
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Fingers crossed for continued improvement.
They don't normally test as you can get false negatives under 12 months but that doesn't mean they will come up neg and I don't see the harm considering the skin prick doesn't hurt at all. Our allergy doc will test from any age, but then he's not all that conventional from what I hear. -------------
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Posted By: MinaNZ
Date Posted: 26 January 2011 at 8:26am
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morning we are still making progress and waiting for peds appt. Just wondering how often your kids feed and what their sleep patterns are like. Callen feds 2 hourly 100mls each during the day and night. On a good night feds every 4 hours. I was told this should settle the longer he's on the fomula. Does this sound right to you? ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 26 January 2011 at 8:45am
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When S was little he always fed 2 hourly he never went any longer even though everyone said he was *suppose* to and he use to only drink around 100ml at a time as well, that did slowly go up as he got older and he then started stretching out to 2.5 hours. Little and often is fine. -------------
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Posted By: MinaNZ
Date Posted: 26 January 2011 at 12:22pm
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I was hoping he would start sleeping longer through th night as I'm due to return to work soon and wanted to be in some sort of a routine. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: AandCsmum
Date Posted: 26 January 2011 at 12:26pm
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I think once Cooper was settled, he'd have a bottle & bed at 7pm, wake at 10-11pm for another bottle, wake at 4-5am for another bottle then he pushed out the morning one to 6am when hubby's alarm went off & then out of the blue he didn't wake at 10pm. He was & still is having 7 scoops to 170ml of water.
------------- Kel http://lilypie.com">
A = 01.02.04 & C = 16.01.09 & G = 30.03.12 |
Posted By: MinaNZ
Date Posted: 26 January 2011 at 1:10pm
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Grr the dietitan at palmy hospital is taking ages getting a perscription for the neocates formula. So far I've waiting two days and each time I ring she tells me she's going to get it done urgently. She won't even give me another can and is aware that we've almost run out. Frustrating!
Is there anywhere else I can get the formula? ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 26 January 2011 at 1:24pm
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try speaking directly to nutricia, you can ring them on 0800 NEOCATE i've heard of other people getting loan tins off them in the past.
Otherwise someone has just put an a thread up selling some http://www.ohbaby.co.nz/Forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37695 -------------
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Posted By: MinaNZ
Date Posted: 26 January 2011 at 1:31pm
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I did see that thread but we need some asap have enough for 3 bottles ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: AandCsmum
Date Posted: 26 January 2011 at 1:46pm
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Is that Lesley?? I'm still waiting on her for a letter from an appointment in august.
Ring Plunket & ask if they know anyone on it. I've emailed someone who might know but can't promise anything. We have advanced so that won't help you. ------------- Kel http://lilypie.com">
A = 01.02.04 & C = 16.01.09 & G = 30.03.12 |
Posted By: AandCsmum
Date Posted: 26 January 2011 at 1:47pm
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You could try Roses Pharmacy, they did have Advanced Flavoured in there, they might have LCP. Might cost you a fair bit though? ------------- Kel http://lilypie.com">
A = 01.02.04 & C = 16.01.09 & G = 30.03.12 |
Posted By: AandCsmum
Date Posted: 26 January 2011 at 1:49pm
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MamaT uses LCP I think?? Or T-Rex.
maybe give them a PM ------------- Kel http://lilypie.com">
A = 01.02.04 & C = 16.01.09 & G = 30.03.12 |
Posted By: lostAmber
Date Posted: 27 January 2011 at 8:56am
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Mina, what are callums symptoms?
My GP suggested I try neocate with Liv but forgot to tell me to add a thickener (anything other than thickened formula barely makes it to her stomach before she and I are both wearing it again). So after 2 days I quit it. When I saw her again yesterday she said she would be happy to give me another couple of tins if I wanted to trial this again, but like you, have gone through so many different formulas for her that i'm just reluctant for any more changes. Also, re the solids, the first thing they usually suggest is pear as it's at a good pH level and is low allergy. I give Liv about 1tsp of that a day, but that is because she is supposed to take her losec in it. It's so frustrating isn't it, not knowing what to do or where to turn next. I hope it gets sorted quickly for you *hugs* ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: MinaNZ
Date Posted: 27 January 2011 at 1:54pm
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LA i remember you saying you were having trouble, it really breaks your heart to see them so unwell.
He had silent reflux which was under control with ranitidine twice a day. He also cried alot and not always at the sametime. He would cry through his bottles, have constant runny poos and on the odd day be constipated. He would also struggle alot in his sleep and just the basic things were difficult eg bath time, massage, playing. We have tried so many different formulas until our doc finally agreed that it could be an allergy. Hubby's mum rang every dietician until someone would see us, which is when we saw Lesley who gave us Karicare pepti junior to try and Callen reacted really badly to it. He was throwing up, not sleeping and crying alot more than normal. It got to the point where he refused to drink anything but water. She then gave us neocates and he's now been on it for over a week. Although his feeding and sleeping when backwards he's much happier, a totally different baby. He loves baths, playing and having a massage. But i find that the milk doesn't fill him up so he's constantly feeding and only sleeping an hr each time (if i'm lucky) during the day and 2hrs at night. I'd be interested to find out if the thickener your talking about makes the milk more filling. We were told that once he's been on the formula for a while his feeding and sleeping will settle. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 27 January 2011 at 2:05pm
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Mina it takes at least two weeks for the damage to heal so give it a while longer. I found with S that his reflux stopped almost instantly, his tummy was better within days (he use to get extremely badly constipated) and then his ezcema and sleeping took about 2 weeks to come right. He continued to spew a lot, but was a happy chucker until that suddenly seemed to stop overnight at around 7 months, so as it wasn't upsetting him I just left him to it and had to remember to take blankets to put down when out so he didn't spew all over other peoples carpets.
He would still feed very frequently during the day but his night times improved heaps and he actually started sleeping through shortly after going onto the neocate, still had the odd night, by 6 months he was sleeping through consistently. Although there are no guarantees, my youngest has no allergies and is the most awful sleeper ever, didn't sleep through even once until 17 months and even now he still doesn't sleep through consistently, he also use to stuff he face constantly and have heaps of booby foods but his volume of intake didn't ever seem to make a difference to how much (or more correctly how little) he slept. -------------
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Posted By: lostAmber
Date Posted: 27 January 2011 at 8:27pm
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Mina, the "struggling" that you're talking about sounds like Liv, and that is wind. Persevere with Neocate for the 14 days and see what eventuates. I'm not sure if the thickener works as a "filler", I wouldn't imagine so. Is he still on ranitidine? How much formula is he taking at each feed? It is also normal for babies at his age to start needing less sleep, so if he wakes up and is happy I wouldn't worry about it. Yes it's exhausting not getting the breaks others get, but that may just be all the sleep your baby needs. Waking every 2hrs at night would be awful, I don't know how you're coping! How much is he taking in those night feeds? ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: MinaNZ
Date Posted: 27 January 2011 at 9:41pm
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Since being on neocates his reflux is gone so he's no longer on rantidine. I too thought the struggling was wind but he's a good burper and farts plenty. I've also noticed he no longer struggles on neocates. He's never been a big sleeper during the day which is ok but I though the nights would be better. He drinks 100mls each time. Last night he was so tired he had 180mls and slept 4hrs. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Kimnthekids
Date Posted: 28 January 2011 at 8:21pm
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Charlottes main excema took weeks to clear up - possibly 2 months actually.. however it stopped getting worse straight away and she stopped getting open sores everywhere. C over the last month has begun sleeping through - 6:30pm - 6am and has 150mls a bottle (4 times a day). I do think possibly the neocate doesnt fill them as much as regular formula
Also, and sorry only just read this today, have you been given any formula yet? If not let me know, i dont have much left before i need to renew our script but im more than happy to send a tin your way while you wait I was lucky, we were given 3 tins on a friday to 'try' by Monday we decided we wanted to keep going, so called and mentioned it, and the specialist had called back by Wednesday with a number for us. I really feel for anyone who has to wait longer ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: AandCsmum
Date Posted: 28 January 2011 at 10:00pm
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I would say it fills them up, the calorie intake is certainly there. My boy never finishes his bottles so it definitely fills him.
Isn't there also a grow spurt around 4 months as well??? Did you get more tins or a script organised? ------------- Kel http://lilypie.com">
A = 01.02.04 & C = 16.01.09 & G = 30.03.12 |
Posted By: MinaNZ
Date Posted: 28 January 2011 at 10:42pm
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I managed to get twelve tins on Friday. Thanks for the offers. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: HuntersMama
Date Posted: 09 February 2011 at 5:32pm
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DS is on pepti jnr. According to our paed they try that before neocate because of the huge cost, and something to do with the guidelines they follow.
We have had no trouble at all with pepti. We did try neocate aswell, but it took DS a long time to get used to it and could never tolerate it at full strength so we switched back to pepti. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: lostAmber
Date Posted: 18 February 2011 at 8:20am
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Mina that is awesome! So glad that neocate is working for you guys and C. can be off medication. I'm wondering if I should give it a go again but with thickener this time! ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: MinaNZ
Date Posted: 18 February 2011 at 11:27am
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He's been on neocates and solids for a month and he's doing really well, so much happier. But in the last couple of days he doesn't drink much formula, just wants water and solids. I've also noticed he's going no 2 more often and has thrown up a couple of times, really phlemmy. Also noticed he rubs his right ear and favours his right side, also seems to be tired alot and his gums are bothering him. I'm taking him to the doc today for a check up, hope it's nothing serious.
LA - what's the thickener your talking about. With Callen i have to put a little bit of rice cereal in his last bottle to keep him going for longer at night otherwise he wakes every 2 to 3hrs for a feed. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: AandCsmum
Date Posted: 18 February 2011 at 12:44pm
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Have you introduced something new in the last week?
Or could be teeth? ------------- Kel http://lilypie.com">
A = 01.02.04 & C = 16.01.09 & G = 30.03.12 |
Posted By: lostAmber
Date Posted: 18 February 2011 at 1:25pm
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The thickener is a karicare thickener, not baby rice or anything like that.
I had Olivia on solids but think it played havoc with her tummy. I didn't give her any yesterday and we didn't get the evening tummy troubles that we'd been getting. May give her veges at lunch and see how that goes. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: MinaNZ
Date Posted: 18 February 2011 at 5:05pm
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I'll look out for the thickener.
I've just worked out that Callen is feeding 120mls every 5 to 6hrs, maybe this is normal for his age?? The doc told me he was fine, he thinks maybe the change is due to his teeth or he doesn't like the taste of the formula. he suggested i put sugar or milkshake flavouring in it... CRAZY!!! I forgot to mention, no we haven't changed his formula or solids in the last week, the only thing that's changed is that i went back to work on Monday so his week has been a bit different. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: lostAmber
Date Posted: 18 February 2011 at 5:59pm
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every 5-6 hrs, is that during the day? they shouldn't go longer than 4hrs at any age. Liv was still feeding 3hrly then! ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: MinaNZ
Date Posted: 18 February 2011 at 9:11pm
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For the last month he has been feeding every 3 to 4hrs during the day and night, then i put rice cereal in his last bottle and he would only wake once during the night. But since Wednesday things have changed, he's been feeding every 5 to 6hrs in the day and although he wakes 2hrly he doesn't always drink formula, he seems to be happy with water.
My Hubby did notice that his gums are looking really white, could his teeth be the cause of all of this?? ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: lostAmber
Date Posted: 25 February 2011 at 5:26pm
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how are things going now Mina? ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: MinaNZ
Date Posted: 25 February 2011 at 11:13pm
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He has his good and bad days, it's definitely his teeth that are bothing him. We went to a BBQ tonight and he was a perfect little angel. I guess it's just a waiting game when it comes to his teeth.
I haven't tried the thickener, but we have a peds appt on Monday as a follow up to him being on Neocates so we'll see what they have to say. How are you doing LA? ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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