Your night routine
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Category: Have A Baby?
Forum Name: Toddler Times
Forum Description: Is bubs growing up and getting into everything? How do you train them to use the potty? When do you start feeding solids? Share your tips and advice here!
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Topic: Your night routine
Posted By: Emmi_
Subject: Your night routine
Date Posted: 14 May 2011 at 3:20pm
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Ok, so DD is 11.5 months now, and wakes every 2-3 hours on a good night. Ive been feeding her everytime she wakes, and Im starting to think very seriously about night weaning.
So I was wanting to know what you do when your LO wakes in the night? I am crossing everything that when she catches on shes not going ot be fed she will start sleeping better, but Im not sure waht to do instead? she screams bloody murder, so I was thinking of picking her up and giving her a cuddle till she stops screaming and then putting her back down again? Do I offer her water? Change her nappy? (thinking if she doesnt like it too much then she might decide its not worth waking up for??) ETA oh also, since DH isnt in the country, my mum was going to do a couple of nights a week for me.. Would it be better to start on 2 nights with grandma or for me to do a couple first? Did you notice an improvement when you night weaned? or did you spend just as much time resettling as you did feeding?? Im petrified its going to get worse (And stay worse) ------------- 
+1 May 09 Angel 
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Replies:
Posted By: MamaT
Date Posted: 14 May 2011 at 4:20pm
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My DS was much the same with feeding every couple of hours (hourly on a bad night), but around 12 months suddenly stopped looking for milk when he woke. Now days he will feed one or twice, but I'm sorry to say, still wakes at least 4 times.
Hopefully you don't have the same luck  -------------  
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Posted By: notenufchaos
Date Posted: 14 May 2011 at 5:11pm
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i am too night weaning my little girl although she is 15 1/2 months now and only waking once. She self settles for all sleeps even after her night feed she doesnt feed to sleep just until she is done.
whenever i put her down for her sleeps day and night when i am about to put her in her cot I sing twinkle little star. i havnt fed her at night for 4 nights now and one of those nights she has slept through two of them she has been awake for 2 hours and one she was awake for the day at 5.45 (normal is 6.30)on the nights when she wont resettle after the first cuddle i leave her to grizzle for a bit (5 - 10min) to see if she will settle then if not i go in and offer her water and give her a cuddle sing TLS and back in her cot, i repeat until she sleeps. sometimes i need to cuddle her for about 20 minutes before she will settle. im hoping that over a week or two she will slowly start going back to sleep straight after first cuddle then not waking at all. Sorry hope that makes sense im a little tired today lol ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">  DD 1-25/05/2008 DD 2-2/2/2010 |
Posted By: Emmi_
Date Posted: 14 May 2011 at 8:55pm
Thanks MamaT 
Yeah shes not fed to sleep, she doesnt have a feed before her nap during the day, she gets one last feed just before teeth when she goes down at night, but shes not fed to sleep. Its like she can self settle when she goes down but she doesnt know waht to do when she wakes during the night? I hope your DD continues to improve NEC, its rough not getting enough sleep! -------------
+1 May 09 Angel
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Posted By: High9
Date Posted: 14 May 2011 at 9:03pm
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Sounds like Lily! Perhaps they plan it together
As I'm having an operation on Monday we've been getting DP to put her down instead and I just make myself scarce... So you could get your mum to get her changed etc and try. I like the gentle approach so I sit by her cot (can take up to an hour or more) and just gently shhh for 6 seconds pause for 2 and shh for 6 seconds again really softly the whole time and if she sits I say 'No, it's time for na-nais (never had to spell it but she knows that means bed time) lay down and go to sleep!' softly and she'll lay down and I will Shhh some more and say it's ok, mummy is still here, you're a big girl and can go to sleep, shhhhh etc. Sometimes I rub her back while she cries/gets really upset about it to calm her. I find picking her up gets her even more upset when I have to put her back down! It's taken about a week but she will go to sleep without me. Still wakes in the night though and monday will be really tough for MIL/DP and I fear they will probably just leave her to cry it out  . I can sometimes get her back to sleep without a feed but it takes longer than an hour. I don't really understand it and am rather confused as she'll happily sleep for ages in her pram laying flat but slightly elevated and go down happily without a feed but her cot/portacot is just a different story and she likes to wake anywhere from an hour to maybe 2.5 hours max! ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: High9
Date Posted: 14 May 2011 at 9:04pm
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Emma, Lily settles fine during the day but night is the same either doesn't know what to do or knows I'll feed her... I wondered if it was the dark but night light didn't work... ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Emmi_
Date Posted: 14 May 2011 at 9:42pm
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no, ive tried the night light. I do the same thing, I dont shhh any more (i read somewhere that after 6 months it actually winds them up rather than soothes), and have been patting her back but have moved to rubbing it lightly.
She goes down fine, like shes wide awake (I stay in the room too cos her room (and mine) is downstairs so ages away to keep toing and froing if she cries) and say the same things you do, but generally I dont need to say anything (or pat her even) and shes asleep in 3-4 mins all by herself (why cant she do that when she wakes?!). Gah mum leaving just woke her up (And I could settle her back down in 4 mins with no feeding) I picked her up for 30 seconds (but she didnt really like it, a couple of weeks ago she would settle in my arms and go to sleep after a bit, but Im scared of forming that habit too!) and then put her back down and just talked to her and rubbed her back. I wonder if its cos Ive been woken up in the night that I dont have the patience/energy to try resettling her? hmm maybe I will try for 5 mins every time she wakes up and see if I can manage that? ugh still seems like a lot of effort -------------
+1 May 09 Angel
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Posted By: Emmi_
Date Posted: 14 May 2011 at 9:44pm
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oh and Nicky, I hope your DP/MIL dont leave her to cry, I dont think they would get much sleep if they did tho! Maybe leave a list of things to try so they know what to do? Hopefuly it will just be the one night anyway and you will be home the next night -------------
+1 May 09 Angel
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Posted By: High9
Date Posted: 14 May 2011 at 10:53pm
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I'm quite worried about it! I've got a list of things to do first... Try a warm bottle of milk, going for a drive (last resort), pram, wearing... Cuddles, my above technique, cosleeping... FX! ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: bebebaby
Date Posted: 15 May 2011 at 12:27am
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Emmi, I night weaned my boy at about 9-10 months (I think)
But we also did VR with him as well. Its not for everyone, but that was what was right for us. Within 3 nights he was self settling to sleep and sleeping through the night. If your not keen on that, I would just stop bf'ing and tell her that its not feed time. Give her a wee cuddle and pop her back in bed. Let her grizle, but if she's crying get her up and another wee cuddle till she's calm and back down. I soo get you on the no patience at night time. When you're tired its hard to stick with the harder routine than give in to the feeding. Also, if your mum is coming I would try her getting up to DD it might help. But also make sure your mum is on the same page as you. Otherwise DD will get confused about what happens at night. Good luck!!! ------------- http://alterna-tickers.com"> 
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Posted By: sarasal
Date Posted: 15 May 2011 at 8:59am
| I tried night weaning but honestly, I got LESS sleep that way. If they're going to wake up, they wake up. If you feed them, they go quickly, easily back to sleep. If you don't, they wake up fully and it takes forever to get them back to sleep. What I did was gently refuse to feed but if he got agitated, I'd just feed him. It did make an improvement over time, and he slowly learned how to go back to sleep without help. But he's only started sleeping right through very recently, age almost 2.5. Some kids just need comfort at night for longer - it doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong. |
Posted By: millymollymandy
Date Posted: 15 May 2011 at 1:04pm
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I night weaned at 9 months and did VR for about 3 days and she's slept great ever since. We have a very strict but peaceful bedtime routine and ignore requests for more stories etc once its 7pm. With a toddler you I have found that if you give in it makes bed time battles more diffcult.
If she wakes I mostly ignore it and she'll grizzle for about 30 seconds and go back to sleep. Sometimes she wakes up and talk to her teddies about random stuff for a while, and goes back to sleep. If after 5 mins she's getting super wound up (3 times in 18 months), I give her a cuddle and tell her its night night time. She goes back to sleep. I think she generally knows if its night its time to sleep and that beds a nice cozy place to be. I probably sound so harsh, but to be honest mucking around with shushing patting etc just made everything so much harder as it overstimulated and confused DD. |
Posted By: Mum2ET
Date Posted: 15 May 2011 at 1:24pm
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no advice here, but just wanted to say she sounds exactly the same as Tom. Can settle himself fine at daytime and going to sleep at night but till wakes 3x a night for a feed (and even then he doesn't fall asleep while i am feeding him, he goes back to bed wide awake and fall asleep by himself). I have been saying for the past 3 months that i need to night wean him but at the moment its just easier to feed him. ------------- Mum to Ella (5) and Tom (2) |
Posted By: Emmi_
Date Posted: 15 May 2011 at 6:13pm
Thank you! This made me cry
Its tough as I always try to look at it from her perspective, and I know shes just not ready to STTN atm, (I didnt till I was 2.5, the first time I did my parents were too scared to check on me in the morning, they thought I had died!) but at the same time, I cant really continue how we are going, I just cant cope, so Im kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place... I guess even if I ahd the option of someone else settling her then I wouldnt feel as stuck/desperate as I do -------------
+1 May 09 Angel
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sarasal wrote:Posted By: High9
Date Posted: 15 May 2011 at 7:37pm
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Emma, that's been my issue too, that she'll do it on her own when she's ready etc... I didn't sleep through until I was about 2.5 yrs old as well and even now I still wake at least once or twice in the night but go back to sleep or I get up and get a drink, snack or go toilet sometimes. But even when I was 7 I still woke for something!
Tbh I have found/noticed that shhing, patting, picking her up, etc does confuse her sometimes... ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Nutella
Date Posted: 16 May 2011 at 12:44pm
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What is VR? ------------- 
Oct 11
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Posted By: Emmi_
Date Posted: 16 May 2011 at 2:00pm
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verbal reassurance, so you just go in every 5 or 10 mins or what ever and reassure them with out picking them up -------------
+1 May 09 Angel
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Posted By: notenufchaos
Date Posted: 16 May 2011 at 2:06pm
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oh i dont think i could do verbal reassurance i think Katie would get more upset. Last night she woke at 1am i gave her a cuddle on the couch turned the pages of a bokk(she looked at the pictures) sung TLS and put her down and she slept till 6.20 so not too bad i was only up for 5 minutes total (including a toilet stop) ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> DD 1-25/05/2008 DD 2-2/2/2010 |
Posted By: mumzrule
Date Posted: 16 May 2011 at 2:31pm
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When my oldest was 11.5 months I did the following, it may sound hash(sp?) but it worked wonders and she is a great sleeper now.
Night routine was bath, book, feed to sleep. Changed to bath, feed, book, bed, leave for 5min go in lie her back down saying sometime short and sweet like 'its bed time ni-night', leave for 10min repeat, leave for 15min etc. When she woke in the night wait for 3min(make sure you look at a clock for all of this) then repeat as before. Its suppose to take 3 nights on average. But it worked for us. -------------  
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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 16 May 2011 at 8:21pm
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I don't have any magic solutions (else I'd be sleeping all night myself ) but I think the best approach to improve her sleep depends on why she's waking.
I know it's a pain in the neck when you are so shattered, but try a sleep log as per Elizabeth Pantley's book. It really helped me several times to nail down what was up with DD. I think the 3 likely causes are: 1. pain/discomfort - for us this presents as erratic wakings, no real pattern to them, but usually very short sleeps and lots of wakings. Also a real giveaway is when I go to her, it doesn't cheer her up, she'd often continue to scream in my arms for hours too
2. Dependency on you to fall asleep (I think this is what people call *habit*). If this is the case, the wakings will be quite regular - she'll need you at the end of every sleep cycle, which was very close to 2-hourly for DD. And when you go to her, she'll follow quite a similar response every time that basically just involves her settling back to sleep whether it's via a feed or whatever. We had this problem once her ears were fixed - the pain was gone, but she'd never had to resettle before cos she'd never completed a sleep cycle. It was a fairly quick and painless process to wean off feeding to sleep at every waking, but it was a bit harder to wean off needing a cuddle at every waking. I found for DD, who is very much a mummy's girl, that sending DH in (could be your mum though) as she still got the comfort, but she wasn't nearly so clingy and would lie down in her cot as soon as he appeared. She's still often waking about 3 times a night though. I guess if this is the problem, a VR type approach might help, although I'd personally not advocate one. Night weaning and forcing her to find an alternative sleep cue should help, unless the alternative cue still involves you. 3. She misses you! This seems to present as she howls for you when she wakes up, settles very quickly once you are there, usually requires a cuddle for us, and then howls again the instant you try to leave, even if she's all but asleep. This is our problem now - she'll sleep happily in bed with us or with DH in the spare bed next to hers, but we don't really want to start co-sleeping cos we're expecting #2 soon and DD's a super light sleeper so I don't want her being disturbed every time #2 wakes. So I'm still working on a solution to this one! Anyway, you aren't alone in all this and you are welcome to moan to me anytime  I wish there was more I could do!------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Emmi_
Date Posted: 16 May 2011 at 8:31pm
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THanks hun,
I think is it needing me to go back to sleep, it seems that once shes had a good feed she will quite happily put herself back to sleep (9 time out of 10, occasionally I think shes sorted and 10 mins later she cries, but I can just tell her its ok and maybe rub her back and she goes back to sleep fine (which then makes me wonder if I can do that normally?!). She generally wakes every 2.5 hours, which to me seems more like the end of a sleep cycle than pain or missing me (surely she would have to wake up to notice I wasnt there and miss me? also she still wakes every 2 hours even if she sleeps with me) And thats where I get stuck, if I night wean her and do what im doing atm to get her back to sleep (talking to her, patting/rubbing etc) then she still needs me... but I guess that would be easier to wean from? Like move from talking and patting to just talking, and then just space out the talking? I guess Im wanting a set plan before I start as I dont want to be talking and patting her to sleep for ever either.. (although if someone else could do it for me once a week then it would be worth it?) Thanks heaps trex  -------------
+1 May 09 Angel
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Posted By: notenufchaos
Date Posted: 19 May 2011 at 1:01pm
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I hope this works - she is based in Wellington
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Little-Sleepers/111059762271935?sk=app_2373072738 - Little Sleepers ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> DD 1-25/05/2008 DD 2-2/2/2010 |
Posted By: bopmum
Date Posted: 19 May 2011 at 1:09pm
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Hey! Really feel for you - hope you find something that works soon. I haven't got any pearls of wisdom but might be something to think about? We got Caide one of those musical seahorse things with a soft light in the belly that plays music for 5 mins and then fades out as well as the light. when he was younger and woke, we would just go in there push Sammy's (that's his name! haha) belly then walk away, usually he would go back to sleep otherwise we would go back in and push it again. I think the sound of the music and the soft light helped a little bit.
Good luck! ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 19 May 2011 at 8:07pm
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Sorry, I've only just seen your reply Emmi. Too tired tonight, but will come back to this tomorrow if I get time ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 20 May 2011 at 2:58pm
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The good news I guess is that the "needs you to go to sleep" option offers the most potential for improvement! If you can get past that association, she'll likely sleep miles better! (TWO nights this week my little madam has slept from 7pm to 5.30 am!! Woohoo).
We kind of approached it in several short phases. Step one with night weaning was basically get her to sleep any way we can that doesn't involve a BF. We offered drinks of water, rocking, singing, cuddles etc. Randomly, I somehow started an association that if I went to her in my dressing gown, she didn't get fed and if I went in just my pjs, she did. So eventually she learnt if I was in my dressing gown not to even ask for BF. That's been really helpful even though we created that by accident! After a few nights, she seemed to no longer expect a BF and so then we worked on getting her to go back to sleep herself. Ooops, naps over. Be back later! ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: High9
Date Posted: 20 May 2011 at 4:20pm
Lily's sleep is sorted now... Mil and DP unfortunately left her to CIO to go to sleep so now she just goes down  although MIL coslept with her overnight... She's gone from waking 1.5-2hourly overnight... Apparently cried the first 2 nights for me and guess she gave up and now just wakes once in the night. No magic advice as I think them being 'tough' with her was what 'worked' but I am not too impressed about her being left to CIO. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Emmi_
Date Posted: 20 May 2011 at 6:30pm
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How do I get her back to sleep with out the feed first? On mon night I decided I wasnt going to feed her before middnight if she woke.. she woke at 10.30 and screamed and cried till 12 when I fed her.. then she woke every 10 to 15 mins all night till I got her up at 5.30 (couldnt handle the get back to bed and then have to get up again!) she had a bit of a play, i changed her nappy and then put her back down and she slept for 2 hours... I broke my baby!
When she was crying I would pick her up, walk around with her, offered her water, bonjellaed her, talked to her, I would put her back in her cot (cos holding her didnt make much difference) and I would pat her, talk to her (like tell her its nuh nighs time etc), I kept my hand on her at all times so she knew I was there... she almost dozed off a couple of times but would start up again (did that a few times in the hour beofre I fed her) I have 2 weeks till we go to the states, Im thinking I will night wean her then, DH can look after her during the day while I sleep... then go from there I think (Im still open to suggestions! and what to do from there if shes still waking) -------------
+1 May 09 Angel
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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 20 May 2011 at 7:39pm
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Yeah, waiting till you have your DH for support and sleep catch-ups is a good plan. Can you get him to do the night wakings for a few nights to night wean her?
The first night the first waking was LONG! We just took turns holding her with her head on our shoulder and just walked up and down, up and down and sang her lullaby over and over till eventually she went to sleep. The second wake up was shorter but still long. It did take 2-3 nights before she got the idea. There were tears, but the plan was I'd cave and feed her if she cried for 20 minutes non-stop. Every time she paused (for more than to catch her breath!) we started the 20 minutes again. I never had to cave - in fact I don't think she even reached 15 minutes more than once. That was the limit of what I was comfortable with. She never cried alone in her cot or anything, always in a cuddle. Pretty much we had to pace until she was very asleep, and then lower her carefully into her cot and tiptoe out. After a few days she stopped looking for a feed and we started working on her going back to sleep in her cot. We were starting from a baby who'd never fallen asleep in her cot so you'll probably be in a better place. Basically the idea was she'd get picked up and cuddled/rocked/shhh'd until she relaxed like she was ready for sleep, and then she'd get put in her cot and we'd sit there with our hand on her (not patting, but so she knew we were there) and "shhh" her till she nodded off. Sometimes she'd get upset and we'd have to pick her up and start again, and sometimes she'd stay settled if we took our hands off her. Essentially we just tried to push the limits of what she'd let us do all the time until it reached the point where most wake-ups a simple "shhhh" would do it, and so on a rough night, DH would sleep in her room and go "shhh" everytime she woke him, and on a good night, he'd pop into her room 2-3 times to go shhh. The real winner for us though, has been moving her into a big bed in a new room. I think partly because she'd developed a pretty bad association with her cot being a place of lots of pain, and also because now when she does wake, we tuck in beside her and give her a great big cuddle without waking her right up by picking her up. She LIKES her bed, and she never liked her cot. For us, starting over in a pain-free environment has made a huge differnce. So maybe the states trip will help you that way too. The other thing behind her recent massive improvements has been she's finally found a toy she's attached to so she'll happily snuggle down with her *baby* instead of one of us. I've spent 16 months trying to get her attached to various toys, but she fished this one out of her toybox and loved it one day, all of her own accord. Stubborn little mule
I hope you have some success with something chick! I know that what worked for my little madam may very well not work for yours, but there might be bits and bobs in there that are useful. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 20 May 2011 at 7:39pm
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PS. Glad you are getting sleep now Nic, but stink they let her CIO against your wishes ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: High9
Date Posted: 20 May 2011 at 7:48pm
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Yeah I'm quite annoyed about it, glad it worked but I asked that they try other things first and they completely ignored it because I wasn't there!
Ummm does any sorta distraction work with her Emma? hopefully your DP will be able to help when you go over to the US! Will you be staying with his family or in a place of your own? ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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