Canadians raising gender-free baby
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Topic: Canadians raising gender-free baby
Posted By: kiwiking
Subject: Canadians raising gender-free baby
Date Posted: 24 May 2011 at 3:34pm
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http://www.parentcentral.ca/parent/babiespregnancy/babies/article/995112--parents-keep-child-s-gender-secret
Basically they have two sons and now have a third baby called Storm but won't tell anyone whether it's a boy or a girl because they want to raise it in a world where peopel don't make assumptions based on gender. The other sons choose their outfits and often wear dresses and pretend to be princesses. What do you think? I'm all for freedom of expression but I think this goes a bit far. |
Replies:
Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 24 May 2011 at 4:19pm
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No way I'd ever do that. Not because I don't believe we have bad stereotypes about gender / make bad assumptions based on gender - we really do, and I don't like it at all. But because they're setting their kid up for a lot more assumptions and rude comments this way. I think they're making it harder, not easier.
Also, being a woman is something that's important to me. I don't agree with a lot of the assumptions people make about gender, but that doesn't mean I'm happy to ditch the concept!! Men and women are different, afterall, and that's a good thing to be celebrated rather than ignored/hidden. I'm much happier to bring Jacob up as a boy, but make a point of letting him know he's free to make his own choices regardless of other people's views. Along the lines of "some people think dolls are girls toys, but we know that boys and girls can enjoy playing with them, don't we?" kind of stuff. -------------   
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Posted By: MummyFreckle
Date Posted: 24 May 2011 at 4:32pm
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I work quite hard at going against gender stereotyping in our house, DS is encouraged to play in whichever way he chooses, regardless of whether its traditionally a male / female thing. He loves dressing up like a fairy / princess / mermaid, but also loves being a fireman / policeman / spaceman! I think this is taking it a bit too far, and whilst "Storm" is a baby its quite easy to get away with it, but as soon as the child starts to develop an identity then they are going to need to associate with a specific gender. Interestingly - I read an article (will try and dig it out) that said children dont really understand the concept of gender (in terms of identity) until they are about 5.
------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Kalimirella
Date Posted: 24 May 2011 at 9:04pm
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I find that quite interesting, I doubt Storm will stay gender-neutral though, as they say until 1 of the 3 children can't keep the secret or don't want to.
Funnily enough at 1 yr old if I dress my girl in her "boy" (blue) clothes she will be taken as a boy 100% of the time, but even dressed in pink she is still sometimes called a boy. We let her play however she wants, trucks/dolls/shapeo/teddies, who cares, if shes having fun and learning from it then thats a healthy child. ------------- Kiara is 3 and Teagan is 2, now we're expecting our long awaited 3rd! http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Kazper
Date Posted: 24 May 2011 at 9:13pm
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OMG seriously. They think people are horrible for making decisions for their children. For goodness sake, if their 3 year old (hyperthetical) decided it no longer wanted to ride in a car seat would they just go with what the child wanted - no! well at least I hope not.
I think they have taken to a bigger extreme than the whole gender thing. You can encourage and support a child to explore and become who they want to become - gender included - without being like that. ------------- http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/545141" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: AandCsmum
Date Posted: 24 May 2011 at 11:15pm
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Strange.....bit extreme! Cooper brought home an angelina ballerina DVD & A thomas the tank engine book from the library, he copies his sisters dancing but also does rugby tackles, he wears his hair up if he wants to but to hide him from being a boy....crazy
Also "itterick practices unschooling, an offshoot of home-schooling centred on the belief that learning should be driven by a child’s curiosity. There are no report cards, no textbooks and no tests. For unschoolers, learning is about exploring and asking questions, “not something that happens by rote from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. weekdays in a building with a group of same-age people, planned, implemented and assessed by someone else,” says Witterick. The fringe movement is growing. An unschooling conference in Toronto drew dozens of families last fall." - gee this is raising worthy members of society, I would like to hear how these kids are doing in 20 years time & what they are doing for a crust! ------------- Kel http://lilypie.com"> 
A = 01.02.04 & C = 16.01.09 & G = 30.03.12 |
Posted By: Nothing
Date Posted: 25 May 2011 at 9:01am
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Its like they dont want to raise a boy child who then turns out to be gay and vice versa. I think its rather stupid. DD is alloweed to do whatever she wants with play, granted most of her clothes are pink but thats cause thats what you get from TM, although lots of grannys ask how the boy is doing! LOL ------------- 
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Posted By: freckle
Date Posted: 25 May 2011 at 12:44pm
so when talking about Storm, I wonder what they will use instead of the masculine/feminine pronouns?? you can't always use the name, it sounds ridiculous.... and you'd hope they wouldn't refer to their baby as 'it'  ------------- mum to 3 lovely girls :D |
Posted By: Kazper
Date Posted: 25 May 2011 at 2:26pm
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Good point freckle. I reckon it would be really hard not to slip if you weren't on your guard. ------------- http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/545141" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 25 May 2011 at 5:01pm
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fruit loops ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">   [/url] Angel June 2012 |
Posted By: Delli
Date Posted: 25 May 2011 at 5:30pm
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I actually don't have a problem with it and can definitely see why they have done it.
Storm's gender isn't going to stay a secret forever - just as long as all of the children are comfortable with it. I imagine that will only be a few years at the most. For now - I imagine it is quite liberating. As they say: "The moment a child’s sex is announced, so begins the parade of pink and barrage of blue. Tutus and toy trucks aren’t far behind." Not saying I'd do that with my baby but I get where they are coming from. ETA - and they don't say that Storm won't know his or her own gender. They are just keeping it a secret from OTHER people. Why is it so important that other people know the gender? ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Plushie
Date Posted: 30 May 2011 at 6:51pm
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I just came to post about this http://www.thestar.com/topic/genderless+baby - here is my link of many more links if people want more reading, includes parent responses etc.
I get that once you say 'boy' you get blue clothes, trucks, cars, moterbikes, toy diggers and rugby games. But like Hopes said i think you can break that mould without going that far. Besides by the time he is old enough for peer pressure he'll be well aware what gender he is and will get all the "boys don't wear pink" or "boys play hockey not ballet" anyway! Sounds like they're lining him up for a lot of bullying later in life. I'm all for my son wearing a tutto and pretending to be a princess but i wouldnt necessarily let him go to school dressed like that aged 10, kids being cruel and all. *somewhere along the lines i've decided Storm is a boy. No idea why! |
Posted By: MummyFreckle
Date Posted: 30 May 2011 at 9:40pm
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I actually found the mothers response very interesting, and I actual "get it" now. I respect what they are trying to do - although I dont think in todays society its necessarily the right approach (rightly or wrongly!)
------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Plushie
Date Posted: 31 May 2011 at 8:21am
| I wonder who birthed him (can't say it!). I assume unassisted homebirth, otherwise somewhere there is a midwife who knows the answer! |
Posted By: High9
Date Posted: 31 May 2011 at 9:56am
DD often gets mistaken as a boy and sometimes I roll with it 
I would never hide her gender from her or others but she is free to make whatever choices she wants regarding how she dresses, what she plays with etc. If other's don't like it then that's their problem - not ours. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Whateversville
Date Posted: 31 May 2011 at 11:28am
Their baby, their choices 
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Posted By: Whateversville
Date Posted: 31 May 2011 at 11:30am
The only people who know are Storm’s brothers, Jazz, 5, and Kio, 2, a close family friend and the two midwives who helped deliver the baby in a birthing pool at their Toronto home on New Year’s Day. |
Bowie wrote:Posted By: Shezamumof3
Date Posted: 04 June 2011 at 12:34pm
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Idiots, thats sick! Poor kid. ------------- |
Posted By: lizzle
Date Posted: 04 June 2011 at 5:12pm
| Meh, i think it is insane - they are drastically limiting the amount of people who can change that kid's nappy (although my money is on early toilet training ;), but hey, they are hurting him/her, and they aren't neglecting him/her, so i really couldn't care less |
Posted By: Delli
Date Posted: 05 June 2011 at 5:34pm
Oh, "sick" seems to be an extreme sort of word to use in these circumstances. Can I ask why you feel that way? I can understand people saying it's "silly" or even "stupid" as it doesn't conform to their own ideas regarding child rearing but "sick"' to me seems to indicate the thought that this is a form of child abuse. Do you think it is abuse to keep a child's gender a secret from other people? ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 05 June 2011 at 6:07pm
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Delli i dont think it is sick to keep it from other people but to not even let the child know! that is definitely weird! ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker"> 
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Posted By: Delli
Date Posted: 05 June 2011 at 6:43pm
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I don't think I've read anywhere that they will be keeping Storm's gender a secret from Storm.
My impression was that they were just keeping it a secret from other people so other people had less opportunity to push their own gender based ideas onto Storm. Unless they keep Storm's and their other children's clothes duct tapped on (which I doubt, being the highly liberal parents they are), Storm is sure to be asking "What's that?" and "Do I have one of those?" kinds of questions before too long - to which I am sure Storm's parents will give a satisfactory explanation on the physical differences between males and females. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 05 June 2011 at 7:59pm
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i linked one on my FB page that said they werent going to be telling Storm either... ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: Delli
Date Posted: 05 June 2011 at 8:12pm
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Oh cool, could you give me the link or quote it? Did they say they weren't going to tell him/her ever or just until (s)he asked?
TIA
ETA - used male pronouns without even realizing it, haha. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 06 June 2011 at 9:00am
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i cant find the link... but she did say that they were going to let the baby decide... and i supposed if you are raising them genderless then there wouldnt be any cooing "oh what a gorgeous little boy/girl mummy has". ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: Kazper
Date Posted: 06 June 2011 at 10:18am
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Hmmmm that would be really confusing for the child. ------------- http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/545141" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: Shezamumof3
Date Posted: 06 June 2011 at 4:08pm
Where did I say it was child abuse? I just think its a very weird and sick thing to do, hiding a gender? why? So thats my opinion, you dont have to like it. ------------- |
Posted By: tarns
Date Posted: 06 June 2011 at 4:57pm
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I reckon its pretty sick too TBH and my overriding question is WHY? If they are relaxed enough to accept that their child may be gay, transgender or come what may then what the heck is all this parlava about? Weird. Guess the first two boys were lucky.... ------------- 
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Posted By: Plushie
Date Posted: 06 June 2011 at 7:06pm
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ahhhhh see i made my comments based on the idea they werent going to tell storm. If they arent telling the lady down the road then she can't say "Here little boy, play with the tractors with the other boys" or something which i understand even though taking it to massive extremes.
Though i wonder how many parents will want him/her to come vist... |
Posted By: Delli
Date Posted: 06 June 2011 at 9:43pm
Sorry, you didn't say it was child abuse. You said it was "sick". Definition of sick in the context you were using it: Unwholesome, morbid, sadistic or disgusting and revolting. All words you would use to describe an unjust or wrongful practise which is what abuse is. I didn't conclude that you thought it was child abuse - what I was trying to say was that your word choice was such that one could make the connection and asked if you thought it was so. I wasn't challenging you - I was just asking a question.
------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: NovemberMum
Date Posted: 06 June 2011 at 10:04pm
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I read that not even the grandparent know what gender Storm is , which I think is pretty sad...I cant imagine not telling any of my children's grandparents whether they are boys or girls.
and there is a difference between not telling someone what gender your baby is and keeping it a secret. for eg you go to the supermarket with your newborn.....generally speaking you dont go announcing "this is a boy/girl" but if someone asks "ooh what an adorable baby, little boy or girl?" but yeah I think it is alittle weird to keep your child's gender a secret especally from family and close friends |
Posted By: Shezamumof3
Date Posted: 07 June 2011 at 9:31pm
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Its just the word I chose to describe how I think it is, and I really do think its very weird and in a way sick. That all I have to say about that ------------- |
Posted By: rorylex
Date Posted: 08 June 2011 at 6:24pm
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1st off how someone words an open opinion is up to them.
I think this is a bit extreme, gender stereotyping isnt something new to society, I actually think its decreased in the passed decade. but that could just be becoz i myself dont care what someone else chooses to do about their own gender/sexuality. being a parent doesnt mean you get to choose that your boy is to dress in pretty dresses that should be intirely up to the child, what 4mth old picks out there own wardrobe? to be genderfree and considerate of that childs feelings as they get older they should be putting the child in clothing that is completely unisex. i do not believe an 18mth olds would pick out a dress in a store becoz he wanted to wear it. children at that age are not even aware of the clothes they wear. but I can see this being the next thing when it comes to parents wanting to be natural. but even tribes in remote villages who are the real natural parents of the world stereotype a childs gender. ------------- Mummy to 4 boys Samuel - 18.6.05 Rory - 15.7.06 Mason - 13.06.08 Emmett - 24.01.10 Baby #5 - cooking |
Posted By: High9
Date Posted: 08 June 2011 at 9:48pm
That is very true. I studied Anthropology at University and we studied one tribe where boys had to wear their hair long and girls had to cut theirs short and then when they got older it switched. And gender was a very important thing and they had celebrations at certain points in their lives that were significant to their gender. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Shelt
Date Posted: 08 June 2011 at 10:25pm
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I might be missing the point here but I really don't understand why its such a problem to be referred to as either a boy or a girl. I'm all for encouraging your child to be who they want to be, and my DD loves her Thomas train set and Bob the Builder books/DVDs just as much as ballet and barbies, but I don't think there is anything wrong with being one or the other. Or other people relating to the child as either being a boy or a girl.
I also read the whole article and I felt like the parents were using their other kids as an experiment too. This is what they said about the oldest boy who is 5: "Jazz — soft-spoken, with a slight frame and curious brown eyes — keeps his hair long, preferring to wear it in three braids, two in the front and one in the back, even though both his parents have close-cropped hair. His favourite colour is pink, although his parents don’t own a piece of pink clothing between them. He loves to paint his fingernails and wears a sparkly pink stud in one ear, despite the fact his parents wear no nail polish or jewelry. Jazz was old enough for school last September, but chose to stay home. “When we would go and visit programs, people — children and adults — would immediately react with Jazz over his gender,” says Witterick, adding the conversation would gravitate to his choice of pink or his hairstyle. That’s mostly why he doesn’t want to go to school. When asked if it upsets him, he nods, but doesn’t say more." I read this and thought poor kid. These parents are setting this kid up to stand out from the crowd from the word go. If he ever does go to school he will be the target of a huge amount of bullying. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Spacette
Date Posted: 12 June 2011 at 1:38pm
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I don't think it's that big a deal tbh. Wouldn't choose it myself, but interesting idea. I think (he's) a boy too for some reason, hehe. It's not like the kids have to keep it secret - I'm sure it will be public in the reasonably near future anyway because of the furore.
Also, it's probably another debate (sorry), but unschooling/homeschooling can often be pretty successful IMO. It's generally chosen by parents who have their chidren's best interests at heart and are willing to spend a lot of time and energy on them - if they were slack types, school is an easier option anyway. I was raised on a combo (some structured stuff but often not) and like to think my siblings and I have done ok .------------- http://lilypie.com">  
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