Pro’s and Con’s to cloth, help please
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Category: Product Reviews
Forum Name: Cloth Nappy Discussion
Forum Description: Are you new to cloth nappies? Looking for washing tips? Want to rave about a great new nappy you've tried? By popular request a board especially for all our cloth Mums!
URL: https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=39825
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Topic: Pro’s and Con’s to cloth, help please
Posted By: Nothing
Subject: Pro’s and Con’s to cloth, help please
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 12:29pm
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So im hopefully going to be talking at some antenatal classes about cloth nappies and I wanted to do up a list of the pro's and con's of cloth. Anything you can think of would be great  ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: AandCsmum
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 12:33pm
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How about you give us what you've already got & we'll add to it? ------------- Kel http://lilypie.com"> 
A = 01.02.04 & C = 16.01.09 & G = 30.03.12 |
Posted By: Nothing
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 12:43pm
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Ah good idea, this is just my random list off the top of my head, it will be filled out a bit more.
Pro’s Come in funky colours and prints Save you thousands per child and can be reused for multiple children Better for the envorinment as they are made from materials that break down easier Easy to wash and dry Can be resold to make some money back Anyone can use them Less likely to get nappy rash Breathable materials Cons initial outlay- However you can put money aside each week while pregnant and use this, also using a hire kit from brith means you can work out what you like best and buy that. -------------
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Posted By: Joscia
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 12:57pm
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Playing devil's advocate - Can be quite overwhelming to try and figure out which type / system is going to work best for your baby - potentially involving a bit of trial and error - Maybe not so good for newborns (skinny legs / meconium stains etc) - Can be a PITA with the extra hassle of washing etc when you are sleep deprived and at the end of your tether... ------------- http://alterna-tickers.com"> 
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- here are some more cons: Posted By: AngieBabe
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 1:03pm
This can be either a pro or a con depending on how you look at it, but the potential for serious addiction is huge when using cloth 
Sorry, that's probably not all that helpful, but what I think has already been covered  ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: bebebaby
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 1:13pm
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To add to your list
Pros You never run out, and have to make a mad dash to the supermarket No chemicals against babys bottom Cons Dry time Do the materials really break down easier? Microfibre and PUL? ------------- http://alterna-tickers.com"> 
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Posted By: Nothing
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 1:18pm
Lol all good its always good to hear the other side to things. Here are some rebutals to your cons- The beauty of getting a hire kit is it comes with all the types and lots of brands so you can see what works best ( I have hire kits available). Meconium stains come out easily with a bit of sunshine and a couple of washes and they usually only have this for 3/4 days, so if you are in hospital you can use their nappies instead! Its easier to start using cloth from birth as that way you dont have anything to compare it too in regards to absorbancy and you will be more onto it with changing frequently so you can work out how much you need. There is no extra washing involved, you can just wash them with babys clothes, one load a day is not that much extra. -------------
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Joscia wrote:Posted By: Flutterby
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 1:18pm
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One pro that I have noticed is,
Less Rubbish. -which means saving money on disposing and buying rubbish bags. Once R was in cloth full time I went from two rubbish bags a week to one. ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Nothing
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 1:20pm
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Janini- That is just a guess on my part, I need to do more research but I would say that microfibre would rot out far quicker than plastic as it is a fibre. Not so sure about the PUL, however once your nappies are dead you would have saved thousands of disposables anyway so its not as bad in terms of landfill space IYGWIM? -------------
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Posted By: Babykatnz
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 1:38pm
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con - have to use special soap powder to wash as apparently enzyme based powders break down PUL? ------------- Brandon - 05/12/2003  
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Posted By: kebakat
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 1:59pm
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The washing and smell is the reason I'm not doing cloth 2nd time around. Adding nappies to our washing would mean that I'd need to do more than 1 load a day and as someone who hates doing washing to begin that's a major con.
My boys also produce very stinky urine. Nothing masks the smell of it when its on them or when they are waiting to be washed. And I did try everything imaginable to hide it with daniel. I'd rather not have stinky boys and a stinky house. |
Posted By: Joscia
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 2:17pm
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I'm similar to Kebakat - I gave cloth a real go - we used it exclusively from when DS was 6 weeks, through to about 9 or 10 months (though never at night.) I was completely adamant that we were going to use MCNs for all of the 'pro' reasons you guys have posted above. ------------- http://alterna-tickers.com">
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Posted By: Nothing
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 2:47pm
Exactly
I keep mine in a bucket with a lid and my girl does stinky pee's too and I have never had a problem with smell, even in the middle of summer. I completly understand those that do try cloth and find that it doesnt work, its those that wont even try one nappy that really annoy me, each to their own tho. -------------
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Posted By: Plushie
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 3:25pm
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I dont understand people who stand around saying they'll ONLY have organic cotton against their precious NB skin then strap on a plastic. I mean, i have natural fibres on DS 99% of the time but i'm not harping on about it then contridicting myself with nappies. Thats a pro, by the way, natural fibres on delicate NB skin.
Never run out! Conversation starter at plunket or playcentre when another mom sees your nappies - instant friend maker! less rubbish esp if you're paying per bag less stinky rubbish Cons/ leaks while you figure it out (though you do so its only a part time con) cost while you find 'your' system (though again solved by hire kits trial and error etc) cost to build a stash - its all very well to say stock up while pregnant but until you have your baby its hard to know what you'll need and then when baby arrives you may not want to shell out extra washing (i dont notice it, i wash every 2nd day and clothes every 2nd day so a load a day) but if you had more then one its a whole extra load and a whole extra trip to the line drying time in winter time snapping them all back together buying different special powder I have a lot more cons then pros but to me the pros are big and the cons are small so the pros win iykwim! |
Posted By: kebakat
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 3:28pm
| The bucket idea for smells works fine when the nappies are off but Daniels bum stank as soon as there was the most tiny amount of pee in the nappy. Can't smell a thing with sposies. |
Posted By: Topkat
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 3:43pm
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Hi Girls,
My son has been wearing pocket naps since the day he left the hospital until recently (he is a couple of months off three)We started having to use disposables because of pre school. I still continue to wear cloth at home etc other than pre school. I'm really proud to say I'm a coth nappy lover even when quite often you get critised for it. I must say tho that since having to use disposables on these odd occasions they are pretty convenant! And they do seem to hold alot more wee now that he is older I have to change the cloths a bit sooner. Pro's 1)Better for the environment it takes a very very long time for a disposable to break down 2)cheaper after the inital cost it is very economical when concidering nappies that are'nt on special are 50c each! 3)less nappy rash (although it's not ruled out altogeather) 4)you never run out 5)less chemicals next to babys skin not nice to think of what goes into making a disposable ekkkkkk 6)Way less rubish which is a real + when you don't have rubbish collection like us some cons are, 1)you have to invest and get at-least 15 to be a full time cloth nap wearer 2) they can be hard to get dry in winter if you don't have a dryer 3)they can leak but thats usally because i've left it on to long of i have'nt tucked in the leak gurads 4)you do need to buy oxygen based soak to soak them in. If you store them in a nappy bucket with a lid till you have enough for a wash they don't smell and if you add a teaspoon of baking soda it will take away the smell altogeather. Much better than a stinky poo nap in the bin! I always soak mine as my boy has stinky wee also hehe but if you soak first before you was it will remove alot of the ammonia before you wash then it's not a prob mine never smell when on him. Sometimes I double rince with an anti fungle wash if he has been sick etc. Try to remember your doing a really great thing even if you just use one cloth nap a day before 1960 disposables were'nt even invented. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: E&L+1
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 6:17pm
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I'd add that you can do cloth AND sposies at the same time and that even using 1 or 2 cloth nappies will save you $$ and reduce waste. Which I guess you'd put in pro's. ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: fairy1
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 8:48pm
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Con: Can be difficult to fit some clothes over them so you have to go up a size. Problem for us as ds has a skinny waist so clothes won't fit him there if we go up a size and look funny. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: shellgirl
Date Posted: 08 July 2011 at 7:20am
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Wriggles, can I suggest that you don't just rebut all the cons when giving your talk and acknowledge that there is some pros with disposables. I am a cloth user, but if I had someone give a talk before DS was born didn't accept that there were some cons I might have been put off, or not have taken them so seriously as I might have thought they were a bit extreme. (it IS more washing, it DOES mean changing more frequently etc... but for me the pros outweigh those cons)
Of course you may be planning that already - it just seems in here when people have suggested cons you've tried to convince them otherwise ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">  http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Plushie
Date Posted: 08 July 2011 at 8:24am
| I was going to say dont tell them cons either, ask them to suggest what they think the cons are and address those, no point adding heaps of things they might not have considered to the negative! |
Posted By: Whateversville
Date Posted: 08 July 2011 at 8:34am
| I don't think there are any cons IMO. |
Posted By: freckle
Date Posted: 08 July 2011 at 11:01am
Yeah I agree! It just sounds like you maybe planning a bit of a debate for why everyone should use cloth... I use cloth naps but it is def more washing and organising, esp when I already have washing for 5 to do... ------------- mum to 3 lovely girls :D |
Posted By: Nothing
Date Posted: 08 July 2011 at 12:50pm
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Ah good point, I like the idea of people asking about potential cons. Any more ideas keep them coming -------------
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Posted By: Spacette
Date Posted: 08 July 2011 at 10:16pm
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You've got most things covered I think!
Could mention that you don't necessarily need to get the expensive ones - I know they're lovely, but some people freak out at the idea of $30 - 40 each and just won't spend that. Until later when they're addicted  . I have a friend on Real Nappies and another on Cherub Tree and they're both very happy with them, and I'm glad to have all my gifted fitted ones cos we don't have lots of $ either. I guess hire kits help with those decisions too. ------------- http://lilypie.com">  
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Posted By: lisame
Date Posted: 11 July 2011 at 9:30am
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More pros:
MCNs are usually made from natural fibres so you're not using non-renewable resources (oil) to make nappies that then go in a landfill. Disposable nappies remain in landfills almost indefinitely. None have been found yet that have broken down except sometimes the paper/fibre portion. When the nappy is folded up and the tabs done up (which is what most people do before they throw them in the bin) even this often doesn't break down. Disposables usually contain polyacrylate (the gel stuff in the middle that soaks up the wee). This has been identified as potentially causing fertility issues when it comes in contact with skin especially in boys (not so much an issue with nappies unless they burst, but I wouldn't ever use that stuff that turns bath water in to gel - it's PAC too) PAC is basically impossible to remove. That disposable nappy processing plant in the south island produces a 'compost' that can only be used in certain situations because it still contains all the PAC. It seems that the PAC also still holds all the wee too. With disposables you're supposed to remove the poo before chucking in the bin anyway - not that anyone does and this 'ease' of dealing with poo seems to be one of the reasons people choose them. All that poo going in to landfills, nice. Add to that poo breaks down in landfills to create methane which is 23 times more powerful as a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. (Maybe a bit too technical!) Might also be worth mentioning that even if you think there are 'green' disposable options, like the compostable ones, these are actually worse - putting plastic in a landfill is less damaging overall than biodegradable nappies. They're only better if you actually do compost them. Some people may mention that there was research carried out in the UK that showed MCNs actually have a higher environmental impact than disposables - worth knowing that this report was completely discredited as it was based on some stupid stuff like washing the MCNs at 90 degrees and tumble drying every time. Also didn't include the environmental impact of production - ie most MCNs are natural fibres and nappies are made from oil-based materials. Let me know if you want more info on any of this. I know it's quite techy, sorry - this is what I do for a job (waste I mean). |
Posted By: freckle
Date Posted: 11 July 2011 at 12:04pm
That's really interesting about the PAC Lisame - I did wonder about that bath stuff 
Wriggles - if you want a less biased view - i.e. more cons, maybe you could post this in the general section? seeing this section is for those already addicted ------------- mum to 3 lovely girls :D |
Posted By: Nothing
Date Posted: 11 July 2011 at 4:08pm
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Thanks Lisame, I knew a bit about the nasty stuff in dispoables but you just confirmed that they really are nasty. Hmmm good idea Freckle, I think I will do that and see what people have to say -------------
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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 11 July 2011 at 7:55pm
I'd have put that one round the other way - I find I get stuck in this wet weather when all my nappies are wet, but I've yet to forget to buy a new packet of disposables when mine's getting low. (I know the answer; buy more nappies )
I also think cloth is more of a hassle than disposable. You have to spend the time washing and drying them, they take more time at each nappy change by the time you flush poo down the loo and take them out to the laundry (guess it doesnt help my laundry is outside) and they do get a bit smelly, which causes the odd gag while transferring them to the machine with MS). Still, the pros (all mentioned by others) outweigh the cons to me  -------------   
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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 11 July 2011 at 7:57pm
Totally third that. I'm a keen cloth user, but I think it's a wee bit silly to suggest they're better in every way (not that you are... but it annoys me when people do). They have down points - I just think they're better on the whole.
Um, er... not being argumentative for the sake of it, but I think that's a bit iffy. Me and DH (soil scientist, particular expert in cow poo, sure, but it's still poo) just had a discussion about it (we lack better things to do) and his conclusion was that where-ever the poo degrades, it will have about the same effect. If you flush it down the loo, it will be processed in a sewage system, which also uses anaerobic processes (so it will make methane, not carbon dioxide there too). And the solids in a sewage system still go into landfill, they take them out and dump them. Apparently (according to the hubby) a few years ago he would have said flushing it is better, because they collect the methane created that way, but now landfills are starting to do that too. -------------
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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 11 July 2011 at 8:17pm
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Double post -------------
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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 11 July 2011 at 8:25pm
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Hehe, I discovered another con at the weekend - when your power goes out for a day and a half when you were just about to do a load of washing, you have to hand wash the darn things... although, better than having to go out in the massive storm to buy more sposies I suppose? ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Turtle
Date Posted: 11 July 2011 at 9:36pm
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My major pro is how I imagine it is much for comfy for DD to be wearing cloth and not gel-filled plastic. I know which I would prefer if it were me.
And the patterns are just so gorgeous.
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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 12 July 2011 at 5:41am
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I thought of another pro - or rather, a con for disposables. You don't have to put cloth in the bin, and so avoid having a smelly nappy sitting there. On the odd occasion I get a poo in a sposie (he only wears them at night, so it's very rare) I flush it - but I can still smell the nappy, even wrapped in a plastic bag in the bin. They might smell a bit in the laundry, but I'd rather that than the kitchen were my bin is. -------------
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Posted By: Dutchy112
Date Posted: 14 July 2011 at 8:53pm
That sounds logic! There goes an argument though... but then why do they still put it on the disposables packaging to flush the poo? ------------- Mum to DS1 (July 2009) and DS2 (October 2011) For quality nappies & advice, check: http://www.theclothnappy.co.nz - The Cloth Nappy Company , Christchurch, NZ |
Posted By: Dutchy112
Date Posted: 14 July 2011 at 8:57pm
Call me weird but I love it when all the above has been done and all my nappies are clean and stuffed/folded and ready to be used! PS my wee boy (23 months) actually noticed today that I had a brand new cloth nappy for him. He pointed at it and was lying still when I put it on him (which doesn't happen often). ------------- Mum to DS1 (July 2009) and DS2 (October 2011) For quality nappies & advice, check: http://www.theclothnappy.co.nz - The Cloth Nappy Company , Christchurch, NZ |
Posted By: freckle
Date Posted: 16 July 2011 at 7:21pm
That's not weird, I love it when it's DONE to... it's the doing that I'd rather someone else did ------------- mum to 3 lovely girls :D |
Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 17 July 2011 at 2:58pm
Hmm... good question. And I checked my Huggies box, and it does say to flush 'solid waste'. I had a bit of a google, and one suggestion was that down the loo, it goes to a sewage treatment plant that's set up to process human waste. Landfills aren't, so in theory it can leach into the groundwater from there. Which kind of makes sense I guess, and lends support to the fact that flushing's a pro. I'm going to ask the hubby, though, because I suspect that there's a lot worse than poo that goes into landfills that we wouldn't want leaching into our groundwater, and that they have some means of preventing that. -------------
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Posted By: Dutchy112
Date Posted: 17 July 2011 at 8:03pm
ha ha, I agree!!! ------------- Mum to DS1 (July 2009) and DS2 (October 2011) For quality nappies & advice, check: http://www.theclothnappy.co.nz - The Cloth Nappy Company , Christchurch, NZ |
Posted By: Dutchy112
Date Posted: 17 July 2011 at 8:06pm
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Thanks Hopes, that would be great! I'll keep an eye out for your next post. ------------- Mum to DS1 (July 2009) and DS2 (October 2011) For quality nappies & advice, check: http://www.theclothnappy.co.nz - The Cloth Nappy Company , Christchurch, NZ |
Posted By: lisame
Date Posted: 21 July 2011 at 10:41am
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Hopes and others:
now we're getting really technical. Hope, in part you are right. However it totally depends how the waste water is treated and what happens to the biosolids (the leftover bits after all water has evaporated). In many cases, modern waste water treatment plants aren't anaerobic, or they have an anaerobic phase and an aerobic phase. Also the biosolids are not necessarily landfilled. Much is actually dealt with in other ways - spread to land, composted, etc. I've recently been involved with a trial project locally where biosolids have been vermicomposted (composted using worms) to make a compost product that has tested to be very high quality with negligible pathogens. Also I'm very cynical about landfill gas capture systems. Organic waste starts to break down very quickly, so as soon as the waste has been covered that's now anaerobic, producing methane. Landfill gas capture systems often aren't put in until a large section of the landfill (cells) have been completed, capped and left while they move on to a new area. By this stage a fair proportion of the methane has already been produced and some will have escaped. Nobody knows what proportion this is because, surprise, landfill companies don't test for this and don't want anyone else to either. This is also assuming that your solid waste is going to a modern landfill that has good lining technology (to catch liquid leachate) and a good gas capture system (and this concern applies to all kinds of waste materials, you're right Hopes, so best not to send anything that is biodegradable to landfill?!) I think what it comes down to for me is: poo going in to landfill = never coming out or being put to any beneficial use at all |
Posted By: lisame
Date Posted: 21 July 2011 at 10:41am
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In fact your hubby might be interested in the project we just finished. especially as we are in BoP so probably not that far away. PM me if you want, I can send him some info.
Also just noticed that I deleted a bit off the end of my post cos I thought I'd gone on enough but didn't delete all of it... it doesn't make much sense as left... ah well. |