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SouthKiwi View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01 July 2014 at 4:08pm
Hi, just wondering what others think about immunizing children against rotavirus?

My baby got all the side effects babies can get from the 12 week jabs, not fun. So am concerned about him getting sick from the rotavirus vaccine.


Any info/advice would be appreciated
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wimble View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wimble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2014 at 4:19pm
I don't know about side effects, but my 2yo got rotavirus when he was 15 months old.  It was horrendous.  I swore that I would immunise any future kids regardless of the price as I couldn't bear to watch another one go through it.  he was skin and bone, we were in A&E for dehydration, and he was miserable for a week.  Poor wee guy :(  So pleased ot see it is finally on the NZ immunisation schedule now!

0800 IMMUNE is always a good place to start for advice :)
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_Soda_ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _Soda_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2014 at 5:25pm
Personally, I wouldnt. Your child has already reacted to past vaccines, which would suggest theres a high chance they will react to this also. do you want to risk more reactions- which can be serious? And a main reaction of this vaccine can be extreme vomiting diarrhea and stomach pain..its a live virus so its actually giving your child rotavirus in the hope itll stop them getting it in the future. And live vaccines shed, so its a possibility your vaccinated child can give it to others for a time after the vaccine. Yes rotavirus can be awful, but an intact immune system is better at fighting off germs than one that is bombarded with vaccines and all the stuff thats in them..your child has to actually catch rotavirus first which they may never do- or if they do it could be years in the future when yes itll still not be fun but they will come out the other side fine and with a better immune system for it.. jabbing bub now with a history of reacting is putting him directly in the line of fire.. from a mama who has watched her child reacting seriously to vaccines, if your child catches a bug naturally, theres 99.999% of the time something you can do to help their immune system fight it safely and keep them safe. If your child has a serious reaction to a vaccine, there is absolutely nothing you or a doctor can do about it. I know my opinion isnt the most popular view, but ive seen the "other side" of the story, and id rather take my chances with the illnesses themselves than a vaccine any day. Feel free to PM me if youd like more info. But all I can say is read the vaccine inserts themselves before making your decision. Ask questions to a variety of sources (remembering GPs are actually not allowed to tell you not to vaccinate no matter what they believe-fact.) and then make your decision. Mostly- trust your gut, your mama instinct is there for a reason..even if it goes against what others are saying. If it doesnt feel right, dont do it. Im sure youll make the right decision for your family xx
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_Soda_ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _Soda_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2014 at 5:46pm
www.immunize.org/packageinserts/pi_rotavirus.asp heres the link to the data sheet that comes with the actual vaccine.
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_Soda_ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _Soda_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2014 at 5:57pm
www.immune.org.nz/taxonomy/term/216 and scroll down for info on rotavirus itself..be aware the vaccine you are given may well still be in trial phases so if you do get it make sure you know exactly what you are given. Also has useful info on what to do if you or your child catches rotovirus :)
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SouthKiwi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SouthKiwi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2014 at 10:26am
Thanks for all the info ladies. DF and I talked about it last night, we wont do it. I hope we are not making a mistake.
My baby had his jabs two weeks ago, he has been unhappy and very fussy since. I dont know if it is due to the jabs or not but he was happy before then. And the rash on both thighs is still there so I think giving him another vaccine would be bad for him.
Thanks again!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _Soda_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2014 at 11:48am
Well done mama for making an informed decision and asking questions :) if the rash is still there two weeks later thats not normal at all, and should be filed as a vaccine reaction..chat to your doctor about this xx
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Trouble147712 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trouble147712 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2014 at 4:20pm
I may be new here, but I can't let this go.

Soda wrote: ".. jabbing bub now with a history of reacting is putting him directly in the line of fire.. "

Rotavirus is not a jab, it's an oral vaccine. It's not a trial vaccine, it's been in the market for years in Australia and the US. Almost all children will catch rotavirus, unless they're immunised.

"if your child catches a bug naturally, theres 99.999% of the time something you can do to help their immune system fight it safely and keep them safe."

OK, what should you do if your child catches tetanus? Any home remedies for polio?

"If your child has a serious reaction to a vaccine, there is absolutely nothing you or a doctor can do about it."

Also not true. You stay at a doctor's for 20 mins after you get the vaccine so that they can give you adrenalin or whatever if you're the one in a millionth person who has an allergic reaction. You can cool a baby with a fever down by giving them plenty of fluids. There's a small risk of a kind of bowel blockage with rotavirus, which shows itself as severe tummy pain - this is serious but is completely fixable in hospital. Mild vomiting and diarrhoea are common reactions to rotavirus vaccine, but it's still better than the real thing, and you deal with it by keeping up their fluids.

"but an intact immune system is better at fighting off germs than one that is bombarded with vaccines and all the stuff thats in them"

Tell that to all the kids in Hamilton who haven't been immunised against measles. The ones who've had the shots are fighting off the disease - those who haven't are catching it.

If you want to make an informed decision, you can't just take the word of some random on the internet. Talk to a doctor (really? who says they're "not allowed" to say anything, why would they say that, and how could anyone possibly enforce it?) or nurse. They've spent years at medical or nursing school, and worked countless hours helping sick children and adults, and they tend to know what they're talking about.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lola11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2014 at 4:54pm
I agree with trouble. Talk to your GP or practice nurse so you can get the correct information regarding rotavirus vaccine. To make an informed decision you need the correct facts. This forum will only get people's personal opinions and you need a professional discussion.
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SouthKiwi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SouthKiwi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2014 at 6:07pm
Am not making a decision just by what other people are saying here. I have spoken to a nurse and plunket about it.
I came here to see what people think about the vaccine.

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_Soda_ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _Soda_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2014 at 7:15pm
Southkiwi asked for opinions..im sorry my opinion doesnt match with everyones but its my opinion and she deserves to hear all sides. The info I gave was from the data insert itself, the one written by the vaccine manufacturer themselves. Yes rotavirus is oral im aware of that, I was referring to all vaccinations in general..I have plenty of information on the questions you asked, trouble, feel free to private message me and ill share what I know with you, as sharing anything outside the "norm" is obviously going to start a handbag slinging match. I have sat and watched my own perfectly healthy daughter react 12 hours after her jabs- we thought she was going to die her reaction was so bad. The 20min wait post- vaccine is in case of anaphylaxis.. which yes they can give an epipen for. The majority of other reactions- like my daughters, cant be helped. Since her reaction we choose to not vaccinate. Someone asked for advice..I gave it. As for measles, tetanus etc, yes there are things you can do. Read the vaccine inserts, do your own research and make up your own mind. Educate yourself before you go saying this kind of thing. I realise you are new to this forum, but this is how public forums work..people give opinions, and no one has to agree, but pouncing on people like you have me is uncool. Again, if youd like more info feel free to message me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pitter patter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2014 at 8:09pm
Soda sorry your daughter had such a bad reaction, that would be scary. Southkiwi I too have decided not to get the rotavirus vaccine for my 6 week old. I read the datasheet and balanced up the pros and cons. They could be shedding the vaccine for up to a month but the datasheet said average one week. Last thing we need right now is my older daughter to get sick. I my due in group one of the mums has a bubs not feeding properly after it. The hosp think because of an upset tummy which the datasheet says is a possible side effect, kind of defeats the purpose I reckon. Personal choice though, vaccination discussions tend to get heated but if we allow each other our own points of view, freedom to research beyond their gp (who are usually very pro immunisation) and express experiences and points of view they don't have to get heated.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aquamarine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2014 at 8:29pm
Just to throw another view out there - a month ago my 3 month old was exposed to rotavirus from a recently-vaccinated baby who was shedding the virus. He contracted it and while it was fairly minor in our case (probably because I eat an extremely clean diet and he's exclusively breastfed, so would have been getting lots of antibodies passed to him from me with every feed), it did mean three days of power-vomits, unsettledness, crying, and the most disgusting smelling poos I've ever smelt from a breastfed baby. It took a few weeks for his stools to come right, and he has since developed a dairy intolerance which has meant cutting dairy out of my diet.

We don't vaccinate at all, and I get really sick of being labelled a plague-spreader while it's somehow ok for others to spread vaccine viruses!! It can and does happen, and the rotavirus vaccine is notorious for it.

If you've already seen your baby react to vaccines, I'd urge you to reconsider any future ones - for some children reactions are due to excipients or adjuvants, some of which accumulate in the body. For others it's a mitochondrial issue, which isn't going to go away. Either way, if there's already been one reaction there's a good chance that you'd experience more with subsequent vaccinations. Be very careful.

I would urge you all to read the data sheet, look at the side effects, the ingredients, what those do in the body, how they go into the body, the diseases themselves and how to treat those and how common they are, whether or not vaccines actually got rid of them or were they already at current levels prior to the vaccine's introduction, etc etc. Ask questions. Don't rely on the pretty government pamphlets which gloss over these issues, don't give any real information as to treatments, and don't give you any real information. We as parents deserve better than to be talked down to, treated like imbeciles, and scared into doing things without being given the opportunity to give true informed consent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trouble147712 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2014 at 8:56pm
I'm not trying to be cool - I'm butting in here because it bugs me to see people genuinely worried and looking for information getting served a bunch of untruths. You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

I believe what you say about your own daughter's reaction. Was it a febrile seizure? They happen to a few babies and are scary looking, but aren't associated with long term harm. They're caused by fever of any sort, not just vaccine-related fevers. There's not much you can do but wait for them to pass. But, it doesn't follow from one scary reaction that vaccination in general harms your immune system. The diseases do far worse damage 999,999 times out of a million. If I had to choose between giving my child a febrile seizure and giving her measles, I'd hate every second of it but I'd choose the seizure. I know someone who was blinded by measles.

I've done a lot of reading on the subject. Package inserts are written in medical gobbledegook and are easy to misunderstand. There's a good, balanced page about rotavirus vaccine on the Medsafe website. Medsafe is the government agency that checks whether every medicine for sale in NZ is safe and effective. They don't sell the vaccine, or pay for the hospital treatment of kids with rotavirus, so they have no financial incentives to promote it.
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SouthKiwi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SouthKiwi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2014 at 9:01pm
Thanks again ladies, I had the feeling this was going to happen. As I said before, I just wanted to know what others thought about it.

My baby has been fussy and unhappy since his last lot of vaccines so I think giving him another one right now would be a bad idea. He did not react at all when he got given the jabs at 6 weeks however he did at 12 weeks.
He got a rash on both thighs and it hasn't gone away. And he is not feeding as well (he is formula fed so I know how much he gets).

I respect others opinions and choices so please respect mine and if you have something bad to say don't say it at all.




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_Soda_ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _Soda_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2014 at 9:20pm
 Package inserts are not hard to read at all in my opinion. and my daughters reaction wasnt a febrile seizure. Ive seen febrile seizures, and are very aware of what happens, what causes them and how harmless they are. it was nothing like a seizure.  My daughters reaction required an emergency trip to hospital, required admission to hospital, and was also recorded by the hospital pediatrician as a serious vaccine reaction on the CARM database and we are unable to vaccinate further because of it. I have PMd you Trouble, with more info and answers to your questions in your initial post. im not about to get into an argument on such a sensitive topic on here. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebecca142173 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2014 at 9:21pm
Hi everyone,

I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in for what its worth . I do believe people have the right to choose whether they vaccinate their children or not. It is one of the first major medical decisions we make for our children.

In saying that, I am pro-vaccine. As a teacher it is really hard to sit and watch a virus like measles or whooping cough wipe through the un-vaccinated children while the vaccinated ones are fine. At childcare centres or schools this does happen and it happens often and the children can become deathly ill from it which I find really hard to watch when there is something so simple to do to stop it.

While this is why I will always vaccinate my children I do not expect others to agree with my opinion nor do I intend this as a way to have a go at other peoples opinions or force my opinion on anyone. You are the child's parent and whatever you choose to do you do with your child's best interests at heart so in that respect whatever decision you make will be the right one.

Thats just my 2 cents anyway I hope it helps you come to a decision and I hope no-one takes offense at it as it was not intended that way

Edited by Rebecca142173 - 02 July 2014 at 9:31pm
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Trouble147712 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trouble147712 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2014 at 9:25pm
Aquamarine, if your baby caught the vaccine virus, they're better off than if they caught the real thing. At least it's been weakened, unlike, say, wild measles. Rotavirus is incredibly common, and is one of the top causes of hospital admission in babies under 12 months, I've heard. My nephew got the vaccine in Australia a while back, and he had green poo for a couple of weeks - a bit messy but no biggy.

Which adjuvants accumulate in the body?Aluminium? We get reactions because our immune system is designed to react to things entering the body - we get fevers to kill the germs, inflammation to get the white blood cells to cluster round their entry point. One of the reactions we get is lasting immunity. Better to get those without the disease than with it.
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Edited by Pitter patter - 02 July 2014 at 9:30pm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trouble147712 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2014 at 9:31pm
SouthKiwi - I see your baby is older than 12 weeks - if they're over 15 weeks they're too old to get the rotavirus vaccine anyway and it's all a moot point.

Soda, if you've been advised not to vaccinate any further then that's a sensible decision for your family and I'd totally endorse it. I hope you don't convince too many people around you not to vaccinate, though, because every vaccinated person around you is protecting your daughter from the diseases she can't be immunised against.
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