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Acetyr View Drop Down
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    Posted: 27 March 2009 at 12:58pm
I am 21 weeks pregnant and told my employer about 5 weeks ago. I have been working for him for 5 years, one of the longest term employees and he seemed very happy for me. I have just been told that my position is being disestablished. I am the only one being laid off.

They have gone through the proper process, giving me a week to respond with alternatives. I've responded and all my ideas were rejected.
It won't be easy finding another job while I'm pregnant, and even if I do I will be no longer eligible for parental leave.

I've done some reading and it seems that they can do this but it seems very unfair to me. I've spoken to some friends who think it sounds very suspicious.

Is there anything I can do or has anyone else experienced this?
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emz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2009 at 1:03pm
I would ring Citizens Adivce Bureau as they can put you onto a cheap lawyer, or at least someone to talk through it with to see if you have a case.

It does seem very suspicious to me that there is only 1 redundancy and it is yours. Have others been working there less time than you? If so that would make me a bit wary too.

The other thing is, most employers would just keep you on for the next 15ish weeks knowing that you will be going on ML then not hire a replacement. That would be the morally responsible thing to do. I would definitely seek advice.

It looks like I'll be getting made redundant sometime in the next few months too so I know how you feel, but in our case it's definitely legitimate as a few of the part time and new employees are being laid off. I'm just lucky I know about it early so I can plan as my mum's the boss (and that still isn't saving me! Damn!)

Good luck, let us know how you get on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fire_engine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2009 at 1:08pm
First - I'm so sorry. It must be incredibly hard at anytime, let alone when you're pregnant cos it is a hard time to job search.

Yes, they can do it if they've followed process and are not doing it because you're pregnant. Are you a member of a union? They could give you advice or the Department of Labour may be able to advise you.

I think it would be very tricky to prove they laid you off because you are pregnant. From what you know of your workplace, do you feel the decision to make someone redundant was appropriate (bearing in mind that it's usually only the owners/managers who know all the details of the operations).

The whole pregnancy/redundancy thing is very tricky. To look at the other side of the argument (and I hope this doesn't come across wrong) - if they need to make someone redundant, and if your position was identified as being non-essential, they shouldn't have to keep you on *because* you are pregnant. It may be that the pregnancy has nothing to do with it

ETA - just read Emz's post and I take your point about keeping it for another 15 weeks though there are probably issues with that around PPL as well.

Edited by Flissty
Mum to two wee boys
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lilfatty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lilfatty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2009 at 1:27pm
I would probably think it would be "ok" from the employers POV. Most companies don't take this issue lightly especially as most don't want to deal with wrongful dismissal procedures.

It may be a case that they needed to downsize and with you moving on anyway it seemed like a good a time as any to rearrange the working environment.

Although it could be seen a morally correct to keep you on for the next 15 weeks .. it may be that they can not financially afford to do that.

Also .. if they do keep you on, then they are legally obliged to keep your job open for the 12 months which if they actually do have to downsize isnt going to help them in the long run, as they would then have to go through the whole dismissal, redundancy process then.
Mummy to Issy (3) and Elias (18 months)

I did it .. 41 kgs gone! From flab to fab in under a year LFs weight blog
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Bobbie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bobbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2009 at 2:43pm
When you say they have gone through the proper process does that include all these points listed here?

If so then it's all above board. If not then maybe get in contact with the ERA and see if you can get another opinion.

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emz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2009 at 3:30pm
Lilfatty from what I understand they can't take into account someone 'moving on' (ie being pregnant) as a point towards redundancy. A pregnant person *should* be treated like all other employees even if they have put in their leave entitlements and their personal status can't come into that decision.

But yeah it sucks that you have to go through this! How much notice have they given you? I really hope for your sake that it doesn't end just before your PPL could start as that seems so unfair.

The upshot of the whole thing, is remember the government has just brought in (I think it applies now) the redundancy package which covers you for a maximum of 15/16 weeks I think. Seeing as you've been working for at least 5 years you qualify and I don't think it's income tested. Unfortunately I don't qualify as I stopped working to study and only started working again just before I finished my degree so don't have the 5 years continuous employment
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lilfatty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lilfatty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2009 at 3:39pm
Emz, im just saying if a company needs to lay off staff there are probably many factors that they take into account and her moving on could be one of them, im not saying that they chose her just because of it.

With me going on maternity leave it has given us cause to "readjust" what our office requirements are. We were having long term performance issues with a staff member but because I was around to pick up the slack we never REALLY got into seriously considering dismissal.

However since I wasnt going to be around, it caused my boss to look into her role and starting the disciplinary process.

So even though my pregnancy didnt have anything to do with the actual dismissal .. it was just a "nudge" in that direction for the powers that be.

And although we could have made her redundant (as we arent replacing that role) we didnt want to send the wrong message to the rest of our staff, which is why we started on the long long road of dismissal due to performance standards.
Mummy to Issy (3) and Elias (18 months)

I did it .. 41 kgs gone! From flab to fab in under a year LFs weight blog
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Acetyr View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Acetyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2009 at 3:58pm
Thanks so much Emz. I will look into the government redundancy package.

lilfatty, why do you keep going on about me "moving on"? I am pregnant, that's all. I'm really not sure what point you are trying to make. I have not lost my job because of poor performance. I have always had high work standards and never received a complaint in the 5 years I've been with the company.

Thanks everyone for your helpful comments. I don't want to be stressed while pregnant, I've read that it's not good for the baby. Next Tuesday is d-day so will try to chill out til then.
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RubyG View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RubyG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2009 at 7:45pm
Acetyr - this neary happened to me and I work in our HR team.!! I looked into it and there was nothing I could do - they were very careful in their approach. Luckily workload picked up and they have delayed - letting me go on parental leave but not replacing me and will make a decision about if they need the role or not in 12 months time. I really appreciated them doing that because it means I didn't need to try and find a new job while pregnant and also get parental leave. Do you think if you asked they might keep you on until you are eligable for parental leave and then worry about the restructure then??

Good luck!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PixieL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2009 at 9:52pm
wxxxkers. (Sorry I don't have anything useful or intelligent to say but thought I'd add that)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HoneybunsMa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2009 at 1:21am
I was put in the exact same position except they decided to start the process when I was 12weeks so actually hadn't "officially" told work. I am almost positive that the operations manager knew as I know that one of the other managers knew as his gf is my best friends boss and she knew.

I think to be honest that my work is a load of c**p. I was originally hired as pass manager/office assistant/cashier (work in a restaurant) and just before new years they started the process. I went back to them and asked if there was anyway I could work part time, etc and was told that they only way I could continue working would be if I would take a pay cut to become a runner. Which when you get to further on in the pregnancy doesn't work anyway as you get tired, and can't move around the restaurant as easy, one of the girls that had her baby last year was waitressing and they put her on the pass because she was struggling so much.

Just before I was made redundant for the three months before this i was working full time covering the functions coordinator who was on maternity leave, so apparently my role was being diestablished.

Literally in the two weeks after I had my final meeting they decided to hire back one of the old staff to work part time as a cashier (remembering that this is what I was hired for) so this is why I think my work is a load of s**t. All I was asking was to work at least 10hours until I was able to go on maternity leave and I would have applied for my maternity leave way back then when I was still working full time hours but no.

So yes I know exactly where you are coming from in regards to feeling let down, unfair etc.

In NZ once you are 27weeks pregnant you actually qualify for the sickness benefit not everyones cup of tea but if you have to do it to make ends meet then thats what you do.

I apparently don't qualify for the restart package that the government has launched as my dp earns too much yet another load of unfair crap. As well as reaching the income threshold you have to be working in your job for one year I believe so you will most definitely qualify for it from that side of things. You will also qualify for an accommodation supplement, and get working for families I would think. Let me know how you go.

I plan on making an appointment with WINZ next week once I find all the documentation that I need to try and get something!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 March 2009 at 11:29pm
Sorry if this has been mentioned before but what they are doing is covering up laying you off due to your pregnancy. It is HIGHLY suspicious and I think you should contact Employment Relations Services (www.ers.govt.nz). It's helpful to speak to someone who knows a lot about Employment Law and your rights and they are the people to talk to first off.

I got made redundant after returning from my honeymoon. Before going on holiday I had said to my employer (stupidly) that we would try for a baby at some stage but it could take us a year to get pregnant... But I said I'd still like to work etc. if I was pregnant...Her husband got made redundant (also my employer) before they laid me off though so I guess it's not so suspicious but I always wondered if my plans to get pregnant had something to do with their decision.

Anyway back to you - I definitely think you should look into what your rights are and how you might be able to fight this as it is very unfair.
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lilfatty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lilfatty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2009 at 8:03am
Originally posted by Acetyr Acetyr wrote:

lilfatty, why do you keep going on about me "moving on"? I am pregnant, that's all. I'm really not sure what point you are trying to make. I have not lost my job because of poor performance. I have always had high work standards and never received a complaint in the 5 years I've been with the company.


Let's not argue about semantics ...

Unless you were planning on giving birth in the office and bringing the kid in with you each day .. you were moving on. (also do you know what the statistics are for people NOT returning??)

IMO your company looked at your role and decided that they didnt need it .. hence making you redundant. Why should they look for a replacement for you to cover your maternity leave period just so you can get PPL when they dont need anyone to do that job?
Mummy to Issy (3) and Elias (18 months)

I did it .. 41 kgs gone! From flab to fab in under a year LFs weight blog
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kirstine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2009 at 8:11am
I had this same concern myself as the company I work for is not doing well at all and we were going to close down completely (instead we have all agreed to a 4 day week) Then I figured out that if I was to be made redundant I would actually be better off, and you may be aswell depending on what your redundancy package is.

Since you have been there for 5 years you should be getting a reasonable sum, and if you can find some temp work to bring in some money between now and when you wanted to stop working then most of your redundancy money could effectively be your maternity leave money instead, which would most likely be more than what the government gives you anyway.

I would be paid out 20 weeks pay if I was to be made redundant as I have been here for 9 years, and then if I found more work I wouldnt care about missing out on maternity leave money.

Try to think positive! Things may work out better for you in the long run.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HoneybunsMa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2009 at 1:54pm
This is a fair enough point, but since finding out I was going to be made redundant at 12weeks I have not been able to find a job. It all goes against you when you are pregnant, even temping!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote denny25 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2009 at 6:36pm
YES i was made redundant when i was pregnant. I fought it all the way (mainly so i didnt lose my maternity pay) and got my job back part time.

I went through an employment advocate - 0800 SACKED.

My company did do some things wrong like they didnt give me the notice in my contract, the didnt give me a chance to respond etc and they hired someone else a few weeks later in the same role.

I would give the 0800 number a go if i were you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote denny25 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2009 at 6:38pm
OH and check your contract because you may NOT have a redundancy clause in it. I didnt which meant i would have gotten NOTHING if i was made redundant.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nutella Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2009 at 11:44pm
Originally posted by lilfatty lilfatty wrote:


Unless you were planning on giving birth in the office and bringing the kid in with you each day .. you were moving on. (also do you know what the statistics are for people NOT returning??)


What if she was planning to return, as lets face it in this economic climate she might be...lots of women carry on working after baby. It would be pretty hard to take that she has no job to go back to now. Anyway, the stats on people NOT going back to work should have NO impact on a redundancy decision.

Good luck to all you ladies who have lost jobs, it must be pretty scary...tough times at the moment and def doesn't make it easier being preggers!



Oct 11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KitKat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2009 at 11:26am
Originally posted by Kirstine Kirstine wrote:



Since you have been there for 5 years you should be getting a reasonable sum, and if you can find some temp work to bring in some money between now and when you wanted to stop working then most of your redundancy money could effectively be your maternity leave money instead, which would most likely be more than what the government gives you anyway.

I would be paid out 20 weeks pay if I was to be made redundant as I have been here for 9 years, and then if I found more work I wouldnt care about missing out on maternity leave money.

Try to think positive! Things may work out better for you in the long run.


I have the most measley redundancy clause of 1 week per year worked... I really wonder about the rights of employees in this country. Rock and a Hard place almost sums it up.... but not quite.

I sympathise with all redundancy situations. DP is redundant, which makes me the 'breadwinner' but Ill be outta action for 14 weeks, then I may feel pressure to return because of it. Not what I had in mind. But there ya go.

good luck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulainauckland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2009 at 7:46pm
I have to say I agree with Nat - just in general chat there aren't many of us who can afford not to work, and plenty that intend to return to their current positions. I did - three times - and do, so "moving on" isn't the right phrase at all, IMO.

Best wishes Acetyr.


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