Car seats - extended rear facing

Hi all I know there has been a bit of debate in various threads recently about car seat safety and in particular extended rear facing of toddlers, after Campbell Live's great story on the subject (which you can view online here if you missed it).

I thought it would be a good idea for a centralised thread (I went looking for an old one to bump and couldn't believe there wasn't one suitable!) where we can share some of the unbiased research and information about car seat safety, and to answer any questions people might have.

If you want to know about extended rear facing this page is a good place to start; the basic thing is that because small children have proportionally larger and heavier heads, and undeveloped spinal cords, in a collision where an adult might get bad whiplash a child who is facing the front of the car is at serious risk for internal decapitation. Yes that's as bad as it sounds - it means when they're thrown forward their neck completely snaps and they can be paralysed or killed instantly. When they're rear facing, however, they are thrown into the back of the seat instead so that risk is virtually eliminated.

The simple fact is that in a head on collision, front facing children have a 75% greater chance of injury than rear facing children.

If you currently have your baby rear facing, you are doing the best for your child. Please keep them rear facing until they reach the limit of the car seat you have in terms of weight or height. If they reach that weight or height, please consider a new seat that will allow you to keep them rear facing for longer.

There's a brilliant (and nice and short - only 30 seconds or so) comparison video of rear facing vs front facing in a crash test on YouTube here That's all I needed to see to convince me of the benefits. Please, please, go look at it (it's only crash test dummies so not gory or scary, I promise!).



People ask all the time if JJ complains about being rear facing still but he doesn't know any different (he's 21 months) And he really doesn't mind having his legs slightly bent. Nor does a friend's 5 year old mind Yes, there is a slightly bigger theoretical risk that they might end up with broken legs in a head-on collision, but I know I would rather have a child with broken legs than one that is dead or completely paralysed.

Something else I hear asked is about the lack of interaction with their child because they're facing away from them - well really you should be concentrating on driving but a great product to have is a mirror mounted on the seat behind them, that way you can see them in your rear view mirror and check if they're asleep etc. I particularly love the Bear View Mirrors you can get from a bunch of places including Baby on the Move and Little Funky Monkey, they're a nice large size and very cute.

I have been asked by another OB mum to recommend some brands of car seats that allow you to rear face for longer and I will put some links into a separate post.

Anybody else who wants to share information on this topic, please feel free to jump in, I don't want this to be solely a weegee lecture thread

And please, if you don't understand something or have a more detailed question, ask - if I don't know the answer myself I do know people who will know the answer

ETA - if you have turned your child around when they hit 12 months or the minimum weight for forward facing, I don't think you're "a bad parent" and I am not judging you or your parenting skills. I have to admit that if you have the means to leave your child rear facing though, and there are no other mitigating circumstances, then I do make the assumption that you haven't educated yourself on the topic. Just coming from the position of an information junkie

Edited by weegee

Right, about specific car seats. There is a perception out there that car seats that allow you to rear face for longer are horrifically expensive. While on average it's true that extended rear facing seats are more expensive (well, don't you expect to have to pay more for something with higher specs/better performance?), you don't have to spend mega bucks.

If you prefer to do your own research there's a good catalogue (in the process of being updated) on this page.

Here's my $2 worth anyway

Some background: we originally spent almost $400 on a Safe n Sound Royale. We thought we were getting pretty much the best seat we could (and we were, according to the sales assistants in most baby gear shops). They're a popular brand choice with NZ parents. They do give rear facing a bit of a bad name though because it's a right PITA lifting your rear facing child over the tether strap and they take up the most space I've seen any rear facing car seat take up - ok for us as we're short but if you have long legs or a small car then it might be an issue. The Safe n Sound seats rear face to 12kg which JJ just sneaks under at the moment.

When I started doing a bit more reading on the subject I looked into seats that are readily available in NZ and would allow us to rear face for longer. The first one I came across was the Brio Zento which allows you to rear face to a whopping 25kg. Unfortunately even a scare mongering paranoid like me can't justify something like $600 for a car seat so I sadly crossed it off my list. I don't know anybody who has bought one that regrets it though (there's a great thread in the product review section with LOTS of info on these seats).

As a bit of a stop gap measure we bought a Cosco Scenera which was only $185 (you can even get them from some Repco and The Warehouse stores, but be careful of the manufacture dates cos they don't get them in very often). They look a bit budget compared to the plush comfort of our Royale but do you know what? JJ seems to prefer riding in it because he has a bit more space without all that cushioning (which is designed for comfort/looks, not safety). The Scenera rear faces to 16kg which is a lot longer especially with my 25th percentile toddler.

Many of the Evenflo seats available here (not the Tribute, but the Symphony, Triumph Advance etc) rear face to 16kg as well and are comparable in price to your average Safe n Sound etc (somewhere between $300 and $500). Winkalotts have a few of these although they're out of stock of some of the cheaper ones. Something else I love about these seats is that most of them have an adjustable slide harness that means you don't have to rethread it as your child gets taller. I have heard they are quite wide seats though (no way you're getting three across a back seat).

I currently want a Sunshine Kids Radian XTSL (or two, actually) - they are coming into NZ for the first time in July and if you preorder by the end of April they're $399 (normal RRP $499). I can point you in the right direction if you're interested in learning more about these seats - they rear face til 20kg then forward face fully harnessed til 36kg so really take the place of two seats because you will be able to get away without a booster for ages with that. They are really narrow (so if we had two in the back seat we could fit a third bum in there if we needed to) and fold flat for travel which is cool. Plus they have amazing crash test results - practically indestructible steel alloy frames compared to the plastic and polystyrene you see on most seats.

Ok, that's me done for now

Plunket change their recommendations all the time depending on ... who knows what.

The latest Plunket guidelines are rear facing till at least 12 months. The American Academy of Pediatrics recommendation is 2 years from memory.

Great info Weegee! I agree with RF for as long as possible and we will until at least 12 months as well. We will reassess once we get to 12 months but we will probably continue with RF'ing post 12 months.
I am really pedantic about car safety and carseats and only hope that NZ toughen up the Child Restraint laws and requirements.

thanks heaps guys.. this is going to make it easier for me to get DH to buy a new carseat now.. which is what I want..

That's some awesome info weegee. *Slap me* but my DS is forward facing from around 6 months I think....instead of following my better judgement I took advice from the powers that be...the MIL. I definitely will not repeat that with future children....and will definitely be buying a seat that allows bubs to sit rear facing for a looooong time. Still got a while before I needa worry about that though so plenty of time to save up lol.

Thanks weegee this was a hot topic in Nov 10 dd thread, and after seeing the campbell live segment, I want to keep my child rear facing as long as their weight and height allows.

I have a question for those with people movers - which seat do you attached the car seat to? The middle ones or the ones at the back?

I watched this youtube video about rear facing a few months back, and a couple of others that popped up as related videos as well, and was instantly convinced that I would be leaving Lyall rear facing as long as possible.
I'm lucky I fluked having the Cosco Scenera which goes up to 16kg and Lyall is a lightweight so will be able to rear face for ages yet. My dragon mirror is great so I can see him too.
If I hadn't seen those videos I would've turned him forward facing as soon as he was the minimum age for it, for the reasons commonly used - so he can see more, so I can see him, etc. When my older 2 kids were small it was only recommended to rear face until 6 mths..so thats what I did! I cringe to think of it now!

caliandjack - I'm pretty sure I've seen that the safest place for car seats in a people mover is the middle row of seats rather than the ones at the back, but I will check that one for you.

angel4 - 2-2.5 is way better than 12 months and unless you are able to find the money to get a taller seat it's still your best bet to get another Scenera (I seem to remember from your other thread your limit was about $250?). Taller kids make life difficult! I'm glad we have vertically challenged genes

The Cosco Scenera is fantastic value for money considering how long it can rear face for, and if we find we can't fit a Radian or two into our budget this month we'll be buying another Scenera soon too (#2 will go into the SnS Royale, but we need two seats for JJ).

Genie, you got a good score!

i tuned my dd1 forward facing at 12 months for the simple reason she hated the car and was always screaming due to getting car sick - instantly had a different child in the car. dd two however doesnt seem to have the same probs so will be rearfacing till she grow out of carseat - sns royale lol